Latest VTST Update from Dr P

[Old Rigger]

Just read the above and one bit puzzled me, throughout all the sometimes heated discussions on numerous fora reference the funding we kept being told that XH558 does not hardly make any money on its display flying as to make a profit/break even they would not get booked as they would be to expensive, yet due to weather last weekend we apparently have lost £50,000 profit. I also remember people saying if 558 did not fly at a booked display it technically has not cost anything in fuel, wear & tear and god forbid spares for unserviceability, so in funding terms is cost neutral.

This is not meant to start any arguments or making a dig at the trust, club or the engineers/aircrew, it is just something that has puzzled/confused me after, as I said above, all the heated discussions that have gone on for the last 3 years or so.

Agree that it was 'gutting' not to have flown all those shows due to weather and hope that 558 will make it for next year as well as 2012 for the next anniversary.

[Olicat]

i heard about the loss
terrible shame

[Mayfly]

I picked up on the word profit but dismissed it because 558 does not make a profit... I mentally changed it to 'income'

[Mayfly]

The latest update from VTST Home page...

Here

No good news on funding.

[Wedgy]

I never did get the email in the end

[Old Rigger]

The way I read that and I will probably be incorrect as usual, but there is a trend like previous years, i.e there are things in the pipeline, cannot tell you about it, theres a recession on don't you know (allthough it does not seem to bother others charities/banks/businesess), you will hear something soon, donations are down, but overall it almost seems that 558 won't fly next year while they try and gain funds to make sure it definately will fly in 2012, but like some on the VTSC forum I and others will be labeled with the new phrase that has taken over from n******ity which is 'doom monger' you got to love these forums

[Mayfly]

The paragraph that bothers me is...

The total donation income raised in this Appeal was £401,000 from approximately 4,600 donations - an average of £87 per donation – against the target of £800,000. (This excludes one-off gifts and bequests amounting to £609,000, and also Standing Order donations, Vulcan to the Sky Club donations, the 558 Flying Fund perpetual lottery and Gift Aid.)

For comparison, the Appeal over the same period in 2009 raised £795,000 from about 10,000 donations, over twice as many donations as this year.

I personally don't see any other way of funding her without the elusive sponsor other than asking the public, but I think it's way it's done that's crucial. The last minute panic does not sit well coupled with what many see as the threat of 'She will be grounded' Of course she will be grounded if they don't enough money in to fund her what do they expect.

The above statement form Dr Bob shows the donations were down over 50% - if we get to the stage of directly asking the public again I wonder if not doing Northern shows will have an even greater impact?

[Lucas1860]

It is an open pocket, the aircraft is very expensive to run, donations are well down. As said, in the past panic has usually set in by the begining of the year. When you look at the people that attend the events you have to wonder why so many are not giving a little. I am sure that those who attend shows to watch and for a day out fail to appreciate the cost for such aircraft, this is not their fault, we on forums know this. I do wonder why an aircraft of such significance is left to fight for its place in the sky. None avaition events may raise its profile...but only for the short time it displays, after that its back to the show in hand, thoughts of donations never feature in their minds.

I was talking to one of the VTST team, they inform me that the aircraft is never invited to any of the Duxford events......why not, this aircraft does pull in the crowds. Maybe some of the entry fee could be diverted its way.

Last year I went to the Sanicole airshow in Belgium. The show was packed, the crowds were there in anticipation of the Vulcan, it turned up, did its display and left.....so did most of the crowd. There was a couple of hours of the show left. It does bring them in, sadly the money doesnt come that quick.

[Mayfly]

I don't really know why Duxford don't want her. 2 years ago she was down to display Saturday & Sunday, DT was flying her. She made the Saturday but come Sunday there was a weather problem & she didn't make it.

We have 2 friends who are mad on 558 & they they were so rude to DT it quite shocked us. Evidently it was said over the tannoy that 558 had CHOSEN to do Southport instead and that is just not true. Then the next year she was booked for early in the season & wasn't ready in time. Whether that has anything to do with it I have no idea - but it was mentioned at the Club day in March some thing has upset them! I know 558 wouldn't fit with some of their events - American Air Day for example but it seems they're not interested.

[Xplumberlives]

I thought DUXFORD had repeatedly stated that booking 558 would mean leaving out several other worthy displays!

SHE's just too expensive to book, we have to accept that!

[Sooty655]

Maybe this "fact" that everyone wants to see 558 isn't really true.

Given the choice, only 11% of us enthusiasts actually voted for her, probably because we've already seen her.
http://www.iconicaircraft.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=3308

As more and more people reach the "been there, seen that, don't want a t-shirt" stage, income is bound to go down.

[Mayfly]

I agree with both the above posts actually....

but some where something isn't adding up - if they public love to see her so much that they leave an air show as soon as she has displayed indicating they only go to see her, after all she was one of the first to display at Dunsfold and it's said it happened there,- why are public donations going down?

Last year they claimed the credit for Waddingtons increased attendances and the fact that the Sunday was down was down by 30,000 because word was out she wasn't flying - so why were this years levels back to normal & why was this years Sunday attendance also down 20-30,000 on the Saturday figures?

I'm not knocking anyone or the effort that's put in, but perhaps something is happening that we are not seeing.

[Xplumberlives]

I agree with both the above posts actually....

but some where something isn't adding up - if they public love to see her so much that they leave an air show as soon as she has displayed indicating they only go to see her, after all she was one of the first to display at Dunsfold and it's said it happened there,- why are public donations going down?

Last year they claimed the credit for Waddingtons increased attendances and the fact that the Sunday was down was down by 30,000 because word was out she wasn't flying - so why were this years levels back to normal & why was this years Sunday attendance also down 20-30,000 on the Saturday figures?

I'm not knocking anyone or the effort that's put in, but perhaps something is happening that we are not seeing.

When did it ever all add up?

[Lucas1860]

I think one problem with Airshows and attendance is the lack of variety. I felt this years events were lacking, I even turned down a free visit to Duxford today. Most enthusiasts were around in the cold war jet era, when mention was made that the Mig21 was visiting fairford and flying, the F111 to waddington, the shows got the sparkle back. Anticipation was there, the vulcan has the same effect on most. We have to face it, the airshows of the past have gone. I actually found the Bruntingthorpe taxi day more of a joy to watch.

[Xplumberlives]

I think one problem with Airshows and attendance is the lack of variety. I felt this years events were lacking, I even turned down a free visit to Duxford today. Most enthusiasts were around in the cold war jet era, when mention was made that the Mig21 was visiting fairford and flying, the F111 to waddington, the shows got the sparkle back. Anticipation was there, the vulcan has the same effect on most. We have to face it, the airshows of the past have gone. I actually found the Bruntingthorpe taxi day more of a joy to watch.

I agree with your comments Jim, the events like Sywell are now more interesting than watching the same few "hackneyed" routines, that are passed off without much thought by many airshow display organisers!

I am aware of one though who does make EVERY effort to bring some interest to "his" show!

[Lucas1860]

I think one problem with Airshows and attendance is the lack of variety. I felt this years events were lacking, I even turned down a free visit to Duxford today. Most enthusiasts were around in the cold war jet era, when mention was made that the Mig21 was visiting fairford and flying, the F111 to waddington, the shows got the sparkle back. Anticipation was there, the vulcan has the same effect on most. We have to face it, the airshows of the past have gone. I actually found the Bruntingthorpe taxi day more of a joy to watch.

I agree with your comments Jim, the events like Sywell are now more interesting than watching the same few "hackneyed" routines, that are passed off without much thought by many airshow display organisers!

I am aware of one though who does make EVERY effort to bring some interest to "his" show!

I went to the Perth Airshow this year, it was great, much like the Sywell one that you mentioned. The atmosphere was great, the display was spot on, the price was £15, not a great deal, but the show was meant to and did keep you watching.

[Mayfly]

I like the smaller shows - they are less hectic and I think have a less degree of expectation...

It's not easy getting foreign participation, there are loads of diplomatic hoops to jump through and it's the airshows who bear the cost of getting them here as well as accommodation for the crews.

However going back to 558 do you think that claiming she is such a crowd puller back fires because the general public think she has so many followers that they themselves don't need to donate even tho' it's mentioned in the commentary?

[Xplumberlives]

I like the smaller shows - they are less hectic and I think have a less degree of expectation...

It's not easy getting foreign participation, there are loads of diplomatic hoops to jump through and it's the airshows who bear the cost of getting them here as well as accommodation for the crews.

However going back to 558 do you think that claiming she is such a crowd puller back fires because the general public think she has so many followers that they themselves don't need to donate even tho' it's mentioned in the commentary?

I think you have made a valid point, personally, as much as I love seeing her, I am just bored by the whole thing now.

Next we'll be told that there is a FUNDING CRISIS and if we DON'T DIG DEEP she'll be GROUNDED!

[Old Rigger]

Next we'll be told that there is a FUNDING CRISIS and if we DON'T DIG DEEP she'll be GROUNDED!

Maybe that is what is due out of the pipeline at the end of the year , beginning of next year, but I honestly cannot believe that this will be the case again, surely not, this was supposed to be the year that it was going to get sorted , wasn't it ? and I actually believed it this time

[Xplumberlives]

Wish I had your optimism and I would love to be proved wrong!

[Lucas1860]

When you see the swaithes of people in the crowd, it would be easy to think they have a genuine interest, that is not always the case. A large number of people think the funding comes from the entry ticket alone and do not bother to pass on any other donation. One comment I overheard a quote at Fairford , "They are always after money yet they are driving around in new Land Rovers"

Its only new for those who have never seen the mighty aircraft, I concur with XP on the seen it, done that thing.

Maybe we are expecting too much, are we just picky?

If I was to hear that say a Bucc was to be flying again then I would crawl over hot coals to see it, as I did the Vulcan.

Sad times.

[Mayfly]

That reminds me of Pprune when someone said something about certain 'private car reg plates' that had been paid for out of donations,

all but one belonged to someone totally different & were just plates, the vehicles themselves didn't even go off the airfield.

I know what you mean Jim about genuine interest - the seaside shows boast high numbers of spectators - but they will it's a free event!! - I bet if Waddington opened their gates & said it's free they would double their attendance figures.

[Lucas1860]

That reminds me of Pprune when someone said something about certain 'private car reg plates' that had been paid for out of donations,

all but one belonged to someone totally different & were just plates, the vehicles themselves didn't even go off the airfield.

I know what you mean Jim about genuine interest - the seaside shows boast high numbers of spectators - but they will it's a free event!! - I bet if Waddington opened their gates & said it's free they would double their attendance figures.

And the rest.

[Spitfire]

I like the smaller shows - they are less hectic and I think have a less degree of expectation...

It's not easy getting foreign participation, there are loads of diplomatic hoops to jump through and it's the airshows who bear the cost of getting them here as well as accommodation for the crews.

However going back to 558 do you think that claiming she is such a crowd puller back fires because the general public think she has so many followers that they themselves don't need to donate even tho' it's mentioned in the commentary?

I think you have made a valid point, personally, as much as I love seeing her, I am just bored by the whole thing now.

Next we'll be told that there is a FUNDING CRISIS and if we DON'T DIG DEEP she'll be GROUNDED!

Frighteningly I TOTALLY agree XP .... I feel EXACTLY the same

[Sooty655]

I think the point about the Land Rover Discos is very relevant.

I know that they are sponsored, and only cost TVOC the same as a small hire car, BUT the general public wouldn't be aware of that, and the sponsor's logo is very small compared to the TVOC one.

Another case of lack of commercial/PR savvy leading to unforeseen results.