XH558s future at Doncaster

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XH558s future at Doncaster

Postby Minty4371 » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:00 pm

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Re: XH558s future at Doncaster

Postby Old Rigger » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:37 pm

Here's more for those who want to help:

https://www.justgiving.com/campaigns/charity/vtts/vulcanxh558ssurvivalplan

Its gone up since I first read the link, so like before it looks like their are plenty of people still wanting to donate.
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Re: XH558s future at Doncaster

Postby Spitfire » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:17 pm

Deja Vu - that incredible sensation that you've seen or heard something before :-o

AND here we go YET again - begging bowl - emotional pleas - save us or else ....... ~x( ~x(

How on earth do these crises creep up like this - surely someone has been watching the beans - if you can't afford 22 staff now you couldn't afford them 2 months ago - why no planning - cost paring in advance of what could be seen as an impending crisis... and its not even flying now - its in a shed :-o :-o
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Re: XH558s future at Doncaster

Postby Old Rigger » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:51 am

Well it is noticeable that they still know how to get the public in a stew, which only means more publicity which generates the money every time, a successful ploy over the years, so why would you not carry on and use it.

If half of what is written on other forums is actually true it makes for embarrassing reading and the other Vulcan owners can be rightly proud of keeping theirs available on the ground in good condition without the need for emotional appeals and wage bills.

I thankfully no longer get all the begging e-mails/news letters so have not seen the full details of this latest crisis and in all honesty have not been interested for some time now in their Vulcan or Canberra.
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Re: XH558s future at Doncaster

Postby Mayfly » Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:26 pm

I can't imagine anyone is surprised. The Trust succeeded because 588 is a Vulcan, it a charismatic a/c in the air but with no PtoF just another grounded airframe. It was difficult enough getting support in the early days with the prospect of her getting airborne again - now we know there is no chance of that ever happening again it will always be an up hill struggle.

There is a lot of rubbish spoken on other fora, mainly because they speak as tho' the Trust can do what they like with 558 whereas in reality the HLF laid down conditions that tie their hands somewhat. Not sure a grounded a/c required 22 full time staff but I assume that number was retained because of the hopeful prospect the Trust had of returning the Canberra to flight.

I feel for the staff who have lost their jobs but again, surely they can't be surprised, the writing has been on the wall.
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Re: XH558s future at Doncaster

Postby Sooty655 » Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:05 pm

Let's face facts. There are three grounded Vulcans which are still "live" in this country. Two of them survive remarkably well with no shed and no paid staff, and one of those two has successfully met CAA and local authority requirements and carried out a "fast taxy" event since the post-Shoreham limitations, and hopefully will do so again in the future. There are also Victors and other "complex" aircraft which continue to survive and thrive in similar circumstances.

VTTST are trying to follow a business model for which there is no precedent, and which in the long term may not be valid. Whether there is really a sufficient demand for an inspirational centre providing an introduction to engineering based on seventy year old technology remains to be seen, personally I don't think it will ever generate sufficient income to cover the running costs, let alone to repay the construction costs.

Despite all the comments that XH558 had to be stored in a costly hangar, last time I visited Finningley the guys were moaning that electrical power was being put on to the aircraft so rarely that systems were failing to work when required. It will be interesting to see what state it is in if/when it comes out of extended "storage".
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Re: XH558s future at Doncaster

Postby Spitfire » Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:55 pm

Mayfly wrote:I can't imagine anyone is surprised. Not sure a grounded a/c required 22 full time staff but I assume that number was retained because of the hopeful prospect the Trust had of returning the Canberra to flight.

I feel for the staff who have lost their jobs but again, surely they can't be surprised, the writing has been on the wall.


Exactly - if that writing has been on that wall why have they been like ostriches and had their heads up their arses :-o
Its ALWAYS a last minute crisis.... like no one even knew there was a problem till it happened ... X(

It gets right up my nose - under my skin - and every other idiom I can think of ... :ymdevil:

Sooty655 wrote:There are also Victors and other "complex" aircraft which continue to survive and thrive in similar circumstances.

Exactly - Bruntingthorpe, just for one example, is thriving and there are on that field terrific examples of groups keeping these 'complex' aircraft in tip top condition with NO staff and NO facilities ... and those like the Lightning boys that needed a 'facility' (QRA shed) bought it - transported it - rebuilt it and now use it all by raising the funds quietly and carefully over the years - NO HLF - NO CRISIS - NO DRAMA ... they all put 'Vulcan To The Shed' to shame ;) :D Most volunteer groups around the country striving in appalling conditions would give their eye teeth for half of what VTTS has access to. :(
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Re: XH558s future at Doncaster

Postby Sooty655 » Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:21 pm

Spitfire wrote:... they all put 'Vulcan To The Shed' to shame...


I understand it is now to be rebranded VTTSS ~ Vulcan To The Smaller Shed. :p
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Re: XH558s future at Doncaster

Postby Spitfire » Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:37 pm

Sooty655 wrote:
Spitfire wrote:... they all put 'Vulcan To The Shed' to shame...


I understand it is now to be rebranded VTTSS ~ Vulcan To The Smaller Shed. :p


Or if times get really bad VTTLT ~ Vulcan To The Lean To :ymdevil:
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Re: XH558s future at Doncaster

Postby Spitfire » Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:10 pm

And Lo - it came to pass .......

Some sad news today from Doncaster about the future of XH558..credit to David Robinson for the update.

A very sad day today folks, made a final visit to see XH558 in hangar three, which you might think was sad enough, but there was more bad news to come... Today was an ideal opportunity to have a chat with one of the engineers, someone that we have known for many years, and when I asked him if he was being kept on, he dropped a bombshell by saying that no one was being kept on, all the engineering team, including Taff Stone were being laid off. Only two people will remain, possibly on a part time basis, and I think you can guess who they are, yep Robert Pleming and Andrew Edmundson, everyone else....gone. I asked if Taff was there today, he said no, he had left and gone for an interview, I believe he said at Cranwell. When asked if he would go back if asked to by the Trust, he said no, not after the way they had been treated. More info came to light, that 558 will move into hanger one and put into storage, but he said that it will only be allowed to stay there till April, if no new home has been built / found by then, she will be moved and stored outside. Also spoke to one of the volunteers, again someone we have known for many years, and he told us that all the volunteers will leave at the end of the week, and will only return if a new home is found for 558. At the moment folks, the future to me doesn’t look to bright. If there are no engineers, how are they going to keep her in taxiable condition, something that the Heritage Fund said they had to do when they got the grant, hope they wont want their money back. No one would be drawn into a conversation re WK163, except to say, that the Trust realise now that they made a mistake in buying her.. As I say, to me the future doesnt look to good, no engine runs, no taxi runs, no engineers, no volunteers and no visits for the foreseeable future for members of the public. There is a possibility of course that all of this, and more, may be in tomorrow nights newsletter, we will have to wait with baited breath to see…


I think "I told you so" is appropriate ~x(

All that money wasted (some of it mine :( )

You REALLY couldn't see it coming .....could you ;) X(

Its been mistake after mistake - cock up after cock up - promise after promise ...
Doncaster as a home :( No public final flight :( No taxying :( Buying a defunct Canberra :(
Who on earth was 'running' this gravy train... as if we didn't know X(

I will say ALL credit to the team that restored her to flight - but after that it disintegrated rapidly because someone hadn't thought it through - all they were doing was riding on a crest of a wave and spending all our hard earned cash which was rolling in .... then we started to cotton on and the Bisto Train came to a halt in the middle of nowhere...

I am SO very glad I stopped funding a long long time back ... I was right :p
And on the 'Shed' website they are STILL delusional and asking for donations - which will, of course, be matched (?)
It aint gonna happen people - wake up and smell the coffee ..... ~x(

Its a travesty and a disgrace X( X( X(
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Re: XH558s future at Doncaster

Postby Mayfly » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:35 pm

To be perfectly honest that quote says nothing more than the newsletter last week revealed, other than a slight difference in the statement about who is staying and on what basis.
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Re: XH558s future at Doncaster

Postby Spitfire » Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:21 pm

Mayfly wrote:To be perfectly honest that quote says nothing more than the newsletter last week revealed, other than a slight difference in the statement about who is staying and on what basis.


Well yes - there is the sugar coated cloud cuckoo land Pleming 'Give Us Yer Money' version and ...reality from those on the sharp end...

Either way its a dire catalogue of cock ups of monumental proportions ;) :(
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Re: XH558s future at Doncaster

Postby Sooty655 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:39 pm

Even if they have a tame developer willing to fund and build the new "temporary" home next to the sewage farm as they imply, todays email news(?)letter says they haven't applied for planning permission yet. And they expect it to be approved, built, moved into and ready to receive visitors by the end of this year.

What bloody planet are they on?
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Re: XH558s future at Doncaster

Postby Old Rigger » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:44 pm

Well I think it has been said by many over the years, that no-one is decrying the work and achievement by the volunteers, engineers and aircrew, but the management cannot be excused for their secrecy and dismissive attitude to all those who have, and continue, to give money and their time, even those who still believe that everything is good and rosy.

Again they have said things around the hangar debacle and requested £200,000, yet it does not cost a fraction of that to move two aircraft and the associated Ground Equipment, spares and tools from one hangar to another and it cannot be rent as the temporary storage is free, but they can't even be open and honest when it all seems to be falling around their ears exactly what the breakdown of that amount is actually for, I would hazard a guess that the money would soon dry up if it was itemised, this has been one element that I use to question until that moment when I parted ways with the whole project.
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Re: XH558s future at Doncaster

Postby Old Rigger » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:43 pm

From another site it would appear that XH558 has been moved, but has to stay outside as there is no room at the inn yet.

Update: apparently she is now in the hangar.
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Re: XH558s future at Doncaster

Postby Spitfire » Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:42 pm

So they raised the £200,000 to achieve this by osmosis and computer control then ... or did they just attach a tug and pull it for £25 :D :p

Isn't it funny how this disaster is all very 'exciting' and there's a 'vision' and eventually there will be a 'purpose built' (or if you want to impress 'bespoke') 'centre of excellence' ....

And I don't believe this AT ALL .. the £200,000 'is a one-off expense' ... it wont be long before the Vulcan wont be able to survive without emergency fundraising to sustain her future ... and off we'll go again ....

:( ;)
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Re: XH558s future at Doncaster

Postby Sooty655 » Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:42 pm

Latest VTTS marketing opportunity is a special series of patches. The original was Vulcan to the Sky, Hangar 3 was Vulcan to the Shed, Hangar 1 (ie now) is Vulcan to the Smaller Shed, the next one will be Vulcan to the Sewage Farm, then finally Vulcan to the Scrapyard. Anyone who buys the full set of 5 patches gets a worthless certificate and their name on the scrapyard doors. :p :p
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Re: XH558s future at Doncaster

Postby Spitfire » Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:51 pm

What gets me is there was NO promised taxying from end of flight to now ... and now its stuck in a 9 x 6 shed with minimal engineering support its deteriorating by the day - so when its finally moved into its 'bespoke' thing how on earth are they going to get it up and running again ....

Oh I know ... THE VULCAN NEEDS YOUR HELP - DIG DEEP TO SEE HER TAXY AGAIN - IT'LL BE YOUR FAULT IF SHE DOESN'T' ....

Its all a total shambles and its pie in the sky bonkers idiocy .... and some people are STILL being sucked in ~x(

http://www.vulcantothesky.org/uploads/documents/JustGiving-Report-Messages-18012017-22012017.pdf

Don't do it people - don't go into the light .....its a trick :ymdevil:
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Re: XH558s future at Doncaster

Postby Mayfly » Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:06 am

Well the guy who started last nights rant on another forum looked foolish when 2 hr later 558 was in the hangar 1.
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Re: XH558s future at Doncaster

Postby Sickbag_andy » Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:50 am

Mayfly wrote:Well the guy who started last nights rant on another forum looked foolish when 2 hr later 558 was in the hangar 1.



He really did open his mouth (or rather put fingers to keyboard) far too soon. If it's the forum i think you mean then it's all being whipped up by a few with their own agenda. I'm just waiting for the film ' Dan O'Hating's Life of Bob' to be released, should be a real comedy.
There is a tendency for the main protagonists to race to be first to post every time any news (or assumed news) appears and this time he got caught out.

I still don't fully understand the plans but the donations do seem to be coming in although they have slowed since the initial release. There is another 26 days left to reach £50k which I think is do-able but another £50k in March may be a harder task. I think in the end there will need to be a trim back of the ambitions to a smaller 'exhibition' centre and possibly with 558 as a solely static exhibit. If taxi runs are going to come round once in a blue moon then that's a lot of work and cost involved to keep the aircraft in running condition, maybe it's time for a reality check which will give a more secure future.
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Re: XH558s future at Doncaster

Postby Mayfly » Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:13 am

There is a lot of irony in many of the posts, not to mention the contradictory information where each poster is adamant they are correct.

I agree that things haven't been as clear as they could have been and I do understand there is frustration but I really do get cross with those that won't look for information and simply take the easy route of picking up the misinformation expanding on it and again posting it as fact.

I still say that the VTST were successful because 558 was a vulcan and I think they lost sight of that, believing that because they had returned a classic a/c to flight they could do it with any a/c. It was always going to be an uphill struggle, after all even Dr Bob admitted they have lived a hand to mouth existence and without a live/flying vulcan it was only going to get harder.

I also understand after the emotional roller coaster the last 15 years or so have been they are very reluctant to just throw in the towel. I wish them luck in achieving what they plan but the money they envisage spending is huge. I know many museums wish they had a fraction of that amount to run the museums they take care of.
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Re: XH558s future at Doncaster

Postby Old Rigger » Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:54 pm

but I really do get cross with those that won't look for information and simply take the easy route of picking up the misinformation expanding on it and again posting it as fact.


Guilty as charged milady, although in fairness I did try and correlate the information that there was not enough room in the storage hangar at the time they first moved her, and it seemed like at least one person was actually there at the time, unless I misread the post. :ymblushing:
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Re: XH558s future at Doncaster

Postby Mayfly » Thu Feb 02, 2017 2:32 pm

Old Rigger wrote:From another site it would appear that XH558 has been moved, but has to stay outside as there is no room at the inn yet.

Update: apparently she is now in the hangar.


My bold -

Haha didn't mean you OR - you didn't use words inflammatory words, you justified your post by the use of the word YET - it's obvious many use inflammatory terminology for the specific reason of winding people up - FB is renowned for it!
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Re: XH558s future at Doncaster

Postby Old Rigger » Thu Feb 02, 2017 2:50 pm

No worries, I forgot what I had written. In reality I agree with your sentiment, but took the quicker option whilst trying to keep using Iconic, even if it is on the oft contentious subject of XH558.

I lurk on most forums, but occasionally someone posts something interesting in which case I might give an opinion or concur, or something that I feel cannot be left un-challenged and at that point I will usually stop, make a cuppa, google around pen something in Word, do something else then decide whether to bother or not.

Sometimes, while doing the above, someone else posts a comment that covers what I was going to say, so don't bother, other times I just dribble on in quiet senility, bit like this post really :p
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Re: XH558s future at Doncaster

Postby Spitfire » Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:11 pm

Mayfly wrote:Haha didn't mean you OR - you didn't use words inflammatory words, you justified your post by the use of the word YET - it's obvious many use inflammatory terminology for the specific reason of winding people up - FB is renowned for it!


That may be me then ... :D :D

I can't help it when I think of all the money I ploughed into getting the beast back in the air and crying openly when she thundered down the Bruntingthorpe runway on that wonderful first return to flight B-)

And then it all went to shit very rapidly and I lost any interest in the aircraft preferring instead to support less profligate and better managed concerns ;)

BUT - No apologies for showing my favourite view of that most excellent day ... that little flick of the rudder then off she goes ...and to think DT was actually IN there \:D/ \:D/



So very sad ... but I could just see it coming ... and lo it came to pass X(

IF it ever gets into its 'bespoke' thing and taxys regularly again (note its taxy and not 'thunder run') I shall have to eat some humble pie ... but it will certainly never get a penny from me again :p :D
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