S. African Lightning crash Update Aug '12

[Spitfire]

I've sat in the single seat Lightning at Tangmere. I am 5ft 8" and was very cramped inside especially on the right hand side. I can easily see how pilots could smash their knees if they had to do a fast eject .

Is there a slow eject then - how does that work - climb up a little ladder and jump out

[Thumper]

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

You know what I mean!!

For example... if you have some kind of failure which means your gonna have to eventually punch out but you have time to guide the aircraft over fields or water and get into position for ejection. Or theres "holy shit the wings fell off eject NOW"

[Xplumberlives]

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

You know what I mean!!

For example... if you have some kind of failure which means your gonna have to eventually punch out but you have time to guide the aircraft over fields or water and get into position for ejection. Or theres "holy shit the wings fell off eject NOW"

Yes, we know what you meant, but Spitfire was right to point out your error!

[Thumper]

Yes but his error is what he described was a manual eject, not a slow eject

[Sooty655]

Yes but his error is what he described was a manual eject, not a slow eject

Oh dear, I seem to have mistakenly stumbled into a Viagra commercial.

[Spitfire]

Yes but his error is what he described was a manual eject, not a slow eject

Oh dear, I seem to have mistakenly stumbled into a Viagra commercial.

Yes - now in THAT context a slow eject is probably preferable to a fast eject .... and a manual eject should get out more

[Xplumberlives]

Yes but his error is what he described was a manual eject, not a slow eject

Oh dear, I seem to have mistakenly stumbled into a Viagra commercial.

Yes - now in THAT context a slow eject is probably preferable to a fast eject .... and a manual eject should get out more

So not only did you win the 2009 PotYs, now you're COMING down to our level!

[Amanda_h]

Hi,

Thanks for the clarification on my previous post, so my friend was lucky
he didn't end up with spine damage then!

I wish I could remember his name, his "small sports car" a Jaguar XJ12
carried the reg No. TPE 1 which he explained to me stood for "Terminal Pilot Error".

The last time I saw him was in 1992 and he said he had seen a Vulcan for sale and would have
bought it but couldn't afford the running costs!

[Thumper]

Don't know if anyone knew the schedule for Overberg but I have just found this. A tragedy as it is, things could have been worse if the events happened on the display after lunch. I bet the VERY "lucky winner" felt incredibly sick.

Golden Eagles - SAAF Parachute Team
Silver Falcons - SAAF Aerobatic Team
Robinson R44
Harvards
L29
RV 7/8
Puma
Mirage F1
MX2
Hunter
Rotorway - Helicopter on a Trailer
Buccaneer
Lynx
L39
Oryx
Lightning

LUNCH

Air Capability Demonstration - Hawk Bombing * Rooivalk Cannons * Oryx Fast Roping * Agusta Extraction
Pilatus Astra Solo
L29
Mirage F1 vs Gripen
RV 7/8
C47 - TP Dak
Hunter
MX2
Agusta LUH A109
Lynx
Rooivalk
Oryx
Helicopter Formation Flight
Buccaneer
Hawk
Lightning - Lucky Draw winner onboard
Gripen
Silver Falcons - SAAF Aerobatic Team

[Xplumberlives]

Yes, we knew!

[Mayfly]

The crash report is out - pretty damning reading!!!

Here

[Aceyone]

Indeed !

[Jigsaw]

Not read it all yet but looks iffy to say the least so far.

[Hihonyr8811]

Wow.
I've really only read the first few pages then skimmed the rest, but the next time someone asks about flying a lightning in the UK, I'm going to tell them to read this.
Talk about a catalogue of errors

And what's all that about his lap top and pilot log book going "missing"?

[Hazzer111]

Does anyone know anything about Anglo American Lightning Organisation have they stopped there work?

[Xplumberlives]

What a DAMNED shame the report wasn't written in English, shameful to issue such a poorly written official document!

Does anyone know anything about Anglo American Lightning Organisation have they stopped there work?

Still going strong on 422 although short of funding!


Look here;

http://www.lightning422supporters.co.uk/

[Molerat]

Seems to be a pretty damning report on just about all aspects of their operation, ops, engineering & maintenance, record keeping, interpreting regulations how they saw fit. The SA certifying authorities are also critiscised for not following up on consistent breeches. A tragic lapse on all sides.

[Ducati Boy]

Reading the report was a stunning experience and a lesson in a classic case of a company allowing standards to slip and slide down the slippery slope which leads inevitably to a smoking hole.

The most significant point is that the company Quality and Safety policy failed to audit and then ensure that corrective actions were taken to rectify an obvious culture of overlooking problems and illegally deferring faults. The Lightning aircraft have had a poor safety record, but at the end of the day it is the human failings which led to the loss of life and the aircraft. That could have been avoided with proper adherance to quality and safety.

On the Vulcan we have an internal TVOC Quality Audit system, with both planned formal audits of M5 procedures and random spot check audits, which I spring on the engineers usually without warning. Recommendations have to be met by response to Corrective Action Requests(CAR) and are automatically monitored by a computorised management system to ensure they are met in a reasonable time scale.

In addition when we are audited by the CAA, we raise their audit findings and any CAR raised against us into our system so that the relevant responsible TVOC department head is automatically informed and required to reply to our QA Supervisor, who then responds to the CAA to close the loop. In addition we have shop floor level Safety Action Group meetings and also Safety Review Committee meetings chaired by an independent aviation safety expert throughout the year which report back to the VTST.

We are not permitted to fly with defects and any deferred maintenance has to be authorised by the CAA BCAR E4 Engineering Authority Organisation.

When these sort of processes are not done and properly followed up, as it seems they were not in the case of the Lightning, then the scene is set almost inevitably for disaster.

[Xplumberlives]

I presume that all of the Thunder City equipment is still looking for new homes.

[Ray C]

I'd still accept a ride in one .

[Ducati Boy]

Me too, but only if I got to audit the owners, the engineering and the Quality system first! Theres no way I'd fly in anything that had all the leaks and problems of the ones at Thunder City!!

[Ray C]

Maybe I'd let you check it over first DB.

[MOD]

Having studied the whole document I have to say that the only 'Agency' that comes out of this with any credit is the UK's CAA.

The difference between Thunder City's approach to flying a 'Complex' ex military aircraft and the VTTS Trust's is a world apart. Thank goodness.

ibw

[Mayfly]

Different country different attitudes!

But hopefully it will give some food for thought to those who bash the CAA re their professional stance about ensuring all is in order before issuing permits.

[Xplumberlives]

Different county different attitudes!

But hopefully it will give some food for thought to those who bash the CAA re their professional stance about ensuring all is in order before issuing permits.

There is more to the world than Lincolnshire!