558's Future.

[Bubbles]

I have noticed a lack of any discussion on 558's future if the appeal fails and the trust goes into administration. From what little i have seen i notice D.Walton's name crop up and suggestions of whether he would be interested in taking her on or not. To put it simply, he would, that i know 'cos he told me a while back.


I have heard of two places mentioned that some on the committee would like to see 558 go to those are Bruntingthorpe and Elvington with,i, believe a preference for Elvington, Now call me biast but if thats the preference then you're wrong. If she is to go anywhere then it has to be to Bruntingthorpe for a number of reasons.
Firstly after the HLF D.Walton is the biggest creditor to the trust with a debt to him of around £1million. he has also said that he would welcome her return and nobody can doubt the standard of care she would receive there. Dave Walton is also the best chance she will have of flying again. I have heard from numerous people that quotes for runway resurfacing have been sought, possible plans for a new hangar and the possibility of there being someone with the relevant experience in operating aeroplanes waiting in the wings. Do i believe this? Well yes i do and it exasperates me to see the whole business staggering on like some sort of lame horse on its last legs, let the trust die, get the club to talk to Walton and get behind any plans for 558's future if anyone can save her then its going to be him.

For those that say it can't be done and that you can't get rid of certain people etc, you can, it may not be easy but it can and should be done, if things continue and things i hear about happen then 558 will never run her engines again let alone fly.

[RLN]

Rant? What rant? Good to see you on here again, Bubbles. I looked in at the club forum last week, and some of the responses to Flipflopman's reasoned view on things made me both angry and sad. If someone of FFM's stature and experience is subject to the baying dog syndrome, what chance do any of us stand with a different slant on things. Needless to say, I didn't even finish the thread, and logged out. Probably for good. What you say is interesting, and with the exception of a few hiccups you can have any opinion you like on IA.

[Jigsaw]

Read and digested with great interest.

Good to see you posting Bubbles. Keep it up mate

[Checkflaps]

Blimey Bubbles, nothing for a while - and then a zinger



As to the future of the aircraft - I am with you there Bubbs. I am very reluctant to write off the project YET, but there is that nagging doubt in my head over what the hell do you do with 60+Tons of high grade scrap (as that is all the aircraft is with no permit and 2 legs to stand on - at the moment) and a bucket load of creditors. I'm sure the administrator would not take the decision to sell it based on what is best for the aircraft - their job is surely to secure as much money for it as possible.

Locations - I feel Brunty would be the most fitting of final resting places, although the Midlands is rather loaded with Vulcans if you ask me . I do think that the Science Museum at Wroughton should have one in its unique collection though, if not we have big empty hangars and a long runway at Filton (but that is rather optimistic to put it mildly) . As for Elvington, unless they can somehow secure the long term use of the runway and get some form of cover over the aircraft I don't think that is the best location for it. I know the victor there does OK without cover but surely you would look to the best location for the long term future for the airframe (speaking a fan, not a business person).

I think we will all find out in the next couple of days as to the short term future of the aircraft - and IMO its not looking too hot for the Trust. Unless, they get another last minute benefector which will probably not be the best for their egos. I would think that having 'saved' the project again, it may be time for those in the higher positions to do a genuine assessment of their own performance. I am not calling for heads to roll - not my style. More, perhaps all those at the Trust should see if they are the best people to do the job - right now. They may have been the best - maybe the only - candidate 10 years ago when this all was started in full. But to secure the future of the aircraft - maybe, let someone else do it (if they can). I have no knowledge of the CAA requirements for the team and as such am not 'telling' people what to do - just what I feel. As has been mooted elsewhere : God forbid that anything happen to people on the team, what happens if one 'key' person is no longer 'available' to do the job? Does it all go belly up - if so, is that not a VERY dangerous game to play. I'm not suggesting I know the answer to this one - but I think, as long as we keep it civilised (hard I know sometimes) and not personal (even harder for some) , then the future of the aircraft is a very sensible thing to discuss.

Fingers crossed for flight in 2010 (longer if possible), but I am not as optimistic as I was last year.

G

[Coastergirl]

I'm actually in agreement with you Bubbs; and I wouldn't call it a rant personally.

She totally belongs back at Bruntingthorpe - not least because of the huge amount of money that should have been paid back to DW. As you say, he is absolutely the best chance the aero has of surviving in an airworthy condition. This man had the guts to buy her, and find storage for her and all the parts to go with her, all those years ago - I think that and the massive sums of money that he wrote off over the last few years, proves his commitment and love for 558. The huuuuuuuuuge volunteer force (BAH and ex Sunday volunteers included) that looked after her, before the project received the HLF money etc were all within reach of Brunty. I would dare to dream that those same volunteers would be interested in continuing their care of her as part of the CWJ collection (static, running or flying whatever the case may be). Why send her somewhere completely new where few, if any, people share any history with her and would have to begin to build a relationship from scratch.

I'd be interested to know if the club have been in talks at all with David Walton; it would seem short-sighted if they haven't.

In response to my lovely husband's point about the trust collectively - remember if this does go belly-up, the trust's employees are no longer identifiable as a group of people - they are all individuals and may have their own plans or ideas with what should then happen to 558.

There have been a lot of positive things that have happened over the last year or so with the structure of the club and trust, but I am concerned that some of those changes that perhaps appeared so great to start with, have lost their sheen somewhat as time has gone on. I have never in my life found any 'organisation' (read club, trust or both) that has this much drama attached to it and it just baffles me how, months and months after the 'changes' that everyone called for, things still haven't calmed down.

As always, just my tuppence worth!

[Hungry Haggis]

That's no rant I think you should call it a reasoned and very informative post .for me it has confirmed a few things I had suspisions about .Having said that I won't be giving up quite yet there are a fat lady or two that will have to sing loud and clear .Although not a member of the culb it has been interesting reading the open topics recently to be honest if had not read some of the barely conceled squabling on some of the one I can read I would have laughed at your Post Bubbles but not a chance of that from me ,I am sorry to say what i think but i have to agree with those I have read lately that if 558 is going to be the victim of a failed trust/TVOC then she has to return to Brunty to be preserved or flown by the very people that saved her for the nation in the first place .I don't knock people but this present lot have lost it big time .

[Xplumberlives]

Bravo Gregg, another one who doesn't visit the OTHER SIDE, at least you can vent your spleen here and see what comments follow!

I know where she is going but for obvious reasons can't say!

[RLN]

Bravo Gregg, another one who doesn't visit the OTHER SIDE, at least you can vent your spleen here and see what comments follow!

I know where she is going but for obvious reasons can't say!

Now what did you have to say that for? Now I'll be wondering until the beans are spilled.

[Bubbles]

Bravo Gregg, another one who doesn't visit the OTHER SIDE, at least you can vent your spleen here and see what comments follow!

I know where she is going but for obvious reasons can't say!

What reasons are those?

[Xplumberlives]

I would get shot!

[Bubbles]

Ahh very funny.

I'm surprised you know where she is going while those nearer the coal face, so to speak, have no idea.

[Xplumberlives]

Well we will have to wait and see won't we!

[Bubbles]

Indeed we will.

[Coastergirl]

Likewise, Bubbles, I'd be surprised if anyone KNOWS where she is going; of course people have opinions or may have heard rumours that they believe to be true - but that has been the case sooooo many times; I have been told by 'inside sources' that this, that or the other is definitely happening - and it is nearly always wrong. It has never been through malicious intent, just purely mistaken information or badly repeated chinese whispers.

[Sooty655]

Sorry, Coastergirl, but you're wrong there. I have it on very good authority she ISN'T going to China.

[Coastergirl]

Oh ha ha ha Sooty, lol.....

[Mayfly]

I personally would like to see her go back to Bruntingthorpe, DW is passionate her & is owed a lot of thanks for his part in saving her.

Sooty can you tell us who told you she isn't going to China? ...........

[Sooty655]

Sooty can you tell us who told you she isn't going to China? ...........

Sorry, I couldn't possibly reveal my (sweet and sour) sauces.

[Xplumberlives]

[Jigsaw]

Brilliant Sooty

[Mayfly]

Some how I think Sooty just isn't taking this seriously

[Xplumberlives]

Naughty Sooty

[Gaz]

I would get shot!

Yes! You Would!

[Jigsaw]

Naughty Sooty

So would you be if that Corbett fella had stuck his hand up your a$$ mate

[Gully]

I could spend hours responding to Bubbles' views, but I'll be as brief as possible...

1. David Walton is the VTTSC President - of course he knows what is going on. We even have a member of the committee there as delegate from BAH and who keeps him informed of Club business!

2. The Club Committee has a responsibility to both members and the aircraft (completely clear in the constitution), with the latter support applying equally to '558's flying days and in subsequent 'retirement'. However, what the Club does not have is any influence or control over the destiny of '558 should the Trust go into administration / receivership, nor do we have any influence over '558's eventual resting place if the Trust continues to operate her until the end of her flying life is reached. Any suggestion that we do have any rights or powers is erroneous.

3. Club Committee not doing their damndest to ensure the future (and a flying one) for '558? At present, the existing Trust is the best option for a flying Vulcan, hence the Club continues to fundraise (more successfully than ever before) and makes all affordable donations to the Trust. Should the Trust fail, we would then appraise the avenues for continuing the Club's support of the aircraft.

4. C. Walton Ltd is indeed a Trust creditor and in the event of the Trust failing would be involved in discussions with the administrator / receiver / liquidator. However, the HLF would be ahead of them in the queue...

5. Elvington, Bruntingthorpe, Wroughton, Yeovilton - all personal opinions of different people in respect of which musuem collection they would like to see '558 being part of, and all irrelevant for the reasons stated in no. 2 above! Likewise, nobody can say it HAS to be Bruntingthorpe, as it is ultimately the HLF's decision (and they could, should administrators / receivers / liquidators be involved, choose to sell her abroad).

6. "Best mates club... with persona egos and silly infighting and bitching" - an oxymoron surely?! A group of 15 individuals from very different backgrounds working their wotsits off to fundraise in support of '558 and deliver better services for Club Members is a more accurate description in my experience. Yes, through involvement with the Club, shared experiences and similar personal values some of us are friends, but that's a positive when it comes to working with people over several days at a time away from home, which is what many of us do! Do we all agree all the time - no! But are we factionalised into being dysfunctional - certainly not!

The final point made was (and I quote) "...i wish the committee and club would sort themselves out and do whats right for the aeroplane...". Which is what, exactly, if it's not fundraising, attempting to grow the Club Membership (leading to more fundraising) and supporting the only body currently in a position to operate '558?

Gully