Spitfire for sale

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Spitfire for sale

Postby Mackrick » Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:16 pm

A rare two-seat version of the Spitfire fighter, the plane that earned a nation's gratitude in the Battle of Britain, may fetch a record price in an auction this month.
This Spitfire is unique — a one-seat World War II-era fighter that became a two-seat trainer in the 21st century.
Bonhams, which is offering the meticulously restored plane at a sale on April 20, estimates it will sell for 1.5 million pounds ($2.2 million). Retrieved from a junkyard in South Africa 30 years ago, the plane is now certified to fly.
Bonhams' Austria unit, Bonhams & Goodman, sold a 1945 Spitfire Mark XVI for NZ$3.2million ($1.8 million) in September, reportedly the record auction price for a Spitfire. That plane had been on display at the U.S. Air Force Museum in Dayton, Ohio until 1997.
The one now for sale is a Mark IX model delivered on Oct. 23, 1944, one of 23,000 Spitfires built through the war.
It remained a single-seater into its junkyard years; it became a trainer in the shop of Classic Aero Engineering at Thruxton Airport, 66 miles (100 kilometers) southwest of London.
The company's chief engineer, Bruce Ellis, spent weeks tracking down the original specifications for the TR9 trainer version at the Royal Air Force Museum in Hendon, north of London.
Tim Schofield, head of the motoring department at Bonhams, said the Spitfire's reconfiguration is unlikely to affect its value.
Valuable old racing cars or rally cars may preserve little more than a registration plate from the original, Schofield said.
"The key is finding the original ID to start the project," he said, adding that the Spitfire restoration started with a substantial portion of the original.
The Royal Air Force never used Spitfire trainers, so this one is painted in the colors of the Dutch Air Force, which had three and crashed two. The airplane's number, H-99, is the number of the one Dutch trainer which didn't crash.
Ireland, Syria and India also used Spitfire trainers. During the war, the U.S. Army Air Forces' 14th Photographic Squadron flew unarmed and unarmored single-seat Spitfire Mark XI planes on reconnaissance missions.
The first Spitfires were delivered in 1938, and the plane proved its mettle two years later in the Battle of Britain as it took on the German Messerschmitt. The Spitfires matched the speed, if not the climbing rate, of the German planes.

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Peter Tuplin inspects the plane he restored, a rare MkIX two-seat Spitfire, at Truxton Airfield near Andover, England, Tuesday April 7, 2009, before it is auctioned by Bonhams on April 20. The meticulously restored MkIX second world war era aircraft, with an estimated value of around 1.5 million pounds ($2.2 million), is ready to fly.
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Re: Spitfire for sale

Postby Tom.com » Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:24 pm

I want it but i only got £210 for my birthday

do they take ious?
No, I am a fairy
↑ÔΜ•€Øm

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Re: Spitfire for sale

Postby Saracenman » Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:24 pm

get your credit card out Mrs DT =))
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Re: Spitfire for sale

Postby Mayfly » Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:51 pm

=)) =)) =))

no chance not till I can have a new ragtop for my MX5. :p
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Re: Spitfire for sale

Postby Spitfire » Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:09 pm

Saw the title of the thread and thought the forum was trying to hint at something :p :p

Nice plane .... but as you know I'm a bit of a shape purist and this particular aircraft has an awful rear cockpit shape - it looks dreadful... :-o :-o

It needs the Nick Grace rear cockpit conversion - now that is stylish... especially how the 2 cockpits are joined by the perspex tunnel ... nice ;)

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Compared to this monstrosity ......

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Having said that - it's a Spitfire for sale and would I say no --- I don't think so :)) :))
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Re: Spitfire for sale

Postby Gully » Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:40 pm

I assume that the one currently for sale has the authentic cockpit arrangement?

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Re: Spitfire for sale

Postby Saracenman » Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:43 am

Mackrick's original post says...

It remained a single-seater into its junkyard years; it became a trainer in the shop of Classic Aero Engineering at Thruxton Airport, 66 miles (100 kilometers) southwest of London.
The company's chief engineer, Bruce Ellis, spent weeks tracking down the original specifications for the TR9 trainer version at the Royal Air Force Museum in Hendon, north of London.


so i would assume that the conversion was done sympathetically, using the orignal specs

here's another TR9 - it doesn't appear to be the same one...

Image

this one's history...

This Spitfire aircraft was built as a single-seat LFlX fighter at the Castle Bromwich factory of Vickers Supermarine in 1944 as part of contract No. B981687/39. It was delivered to the Royal Air Force at No.33 Maintenance Unit at Lyneham in Wiltshire as PV202 on 18/09/44 where it was brought up to operational standard for service delivery.

The aircraft moved to an operational pool of pilots and machines at No.84 Ground Support Unit at Thruxton, Hants, and on 19/10/44 finally entered service with 33Sqn. 135 Wing of 2nd Tactical Air Force, based at Merville, Northern France, carrying the codes “5R-Q”. The Squadron was tasked mainly with ground support of offensive operations as the allied forces pushed further into Europe and was also engaged in the harassment of enemy troop movements by carrying out strafing attacks on road and rail convoys. The aircraft moved to its new base at Maldegem in Belgium before returning to the UK on 14/12/44 at 84GSU, Lasham when the Squadron converted onto Hawker Tempest Aircraft.

PV202 had carried out 20 operational sorties with ten pilots from Britain, Denmark, Holland and South Africa during its service with 33 Squadron. A move between M.U.’s took it to 83GSU at Dunsfold in January 1945 before being issued to 412Sqn. Royal Canadian Air Force operating from Heesch in Holland where it carried the Squadron identity “VZ-M” later changing to “VZ-W”. Operations were still to strafe anything enemy moving on the ground and the Squadron eventually moved further into Germany itself, being based at Rhein and Wunsdorf forward operating airfields. On 04/05/45 Fg Off H.M.Lepard carried out the last of PV202’s 76 operational sorties with 412 Sqn. With the war in Europe at an end, the Sqn. returned to Dunsfold at the end of May and PV202 was flown to the famous 29MU at High Ercall for storage in July 1945.

The aircraft remained at High Ercall until selected by Vickers-Armstrong for conversion into trainer configuration in 1950 as part of an order from the Irish Air Corps. It was converted at their Eastleigh Factory and test flown as G-15-174. Delivery was completed to the IAC on 15/06/51, where it was given the new identity IAC161.

The Tr.9 Spitfires were used to train pilots for the IAC Seafire fleet and the course included gunnery practice, for although the Spitfire was primarily a trainer, it was equipped with two .303 Browning machine guns, one in each outer wing bay. In time, the IAC retired its Seafire fleet and the Spitfires took on their duties until in 1960 they too were retired. Most of the Tr.9 aircraft passed to the ground technical training school at Baldonnel where they were used as instructional airframes for the training of aircraft engineers for the Air Corps. IAC161 fulfilled this role from December 1960 until it was sold to Tony Samuelson, a collector who was supplying aircraft for the Battle of Britain Film Company.

Samuelson bought four Tr.9 aircraft from the IAC, two of which were made airworthy and used in the filming. IAC161 however, remained on the ground and was never used, remaining in store in Cricklewood. In April 1970 Tony Samuelson sold his four Spitfires and also an airworthy Hurricane to Sir William Roberts. IAC161 was moved to a farm at Flimwell and later the fuselage moved to Shoreham, before heading north to join Roberts’s “Strathallan Collection” aircraft museum in Scotland.

Little or no work was carried out on IAC161 and in 1979 it and its sister aircraft IAC162/ML407(now operated by Carolyn Grace) were put up for sale and went to new owner Nick Grace, who moved the pair to St. Merryn in Cornwall. Grace kept IAC162 for himself and sold IAC161 to Steve Atkins who moved the various parts of the project to a barn on a farm at Saffron Walden, only a few miles from its current home at Duxford! Here a band of volunteers including current ARC engineer Kevin “George” Francis and ARC volunteer Bob Sparkes were involved in starting the mammoth job of restoring the Spitfire to fly.

A change in business made Atkins relocate to Sussex and the Spitfire moved too. The aircraft was restored as a two seater, but a modified rear canopy arrangement was incorporated to the rebuild. After many struggles, the Aircraft was eventually fully rebuilt and made a first post restoration flight from Bae Dunsfold on 23/02/90 now wearing its 412 Sqn colours as PV202 “VZ-M”. At this point Atkins relinquished ownership to shareholder Richard Parker who went on to operate the Spitfire extensively on the airshow scene until selling it to collector Rick Roberts on 14/07/92.

Roberts also operated the aircraft extensively and during this time it suffered an undercarriage malfunction at its home base at Goodwood. Following repairs at Earls Colne the aircraft changed its colours to the earlier 33 Sqn markings as “5R-Q”. Roberts sold the aircraft in March 2000 to Greg McCarrach who intended to export the Spitfire to his base in South Africa, but it was written off in a fatal accident at Goodwood on 8/04/2000, killing the owner and his instructor Norman Lees.

The aircraft was removed to Farnborough where a crash investigation was undertaken. Following completion of the investigation, the salvage was offered for sale and inspected by Aircraft Restoration Company (ARC) and Historic Flying Ltd. (HFL) engineers to see if a rebuild was possible. Karel Bos, owner of HFL bought the wreckage and it arrived at The ARC workshop at Duxford on 28/02/01 where a partial strip down was undertaken before it moved into the new ARC/HFL hangar in June 2001.

Since then a comprehensive and detailed rebuild has been carried out by ten engineers at HFL. Although highly experienced in the rebuilding of Spitfires of differing marks, PV202 brought its own challenges by way of its damage and the very fact that it was the first Tr.9 variant the company had tackled. A decision was made by Karel Bos to present the aircraft in the colour scheme it wore when delivered to the IAC in 1951 and to convert it back to its original configuration with the bubble top rear canopy. Amazingly the original rear canopy assembly was traced to being in store in Norfolk and was acquired for the project. Detailed research was undertaken to obtain the correct colour match for the original IAC Green paint scheme. A Rolls-Royce Merlin 66, correct for this mark, was rebuilt in America by Paul Szendroi of Universal Airmotive and replaced the previously fitted Packard (American built) 266 Merlin.

The aircraft was substantially complete by February 2004 and first engine runs were undertaken on the 27th of that month. At that point it was confidently expected that the Spitfire would make its airshow debut that season, but during ground testing of the engine it became apparent that all was not well. A component had failed and it would require removal of the complete engine to facilitate a repair. IAC161 would remain grounded for the rest of 2004 whilst a replacement component was sourced and the engine stripped and repaired in-house.

By December 2004 the Spitfire was ready for engine runs, the first taking place on the 3rd of the month. Testing continued and full power runs were carried out on 23 December. Following further final preparation the Spitfire took to the air from Duxford for its first post-restoration flight on 13th January 2005 in the hands of ARC Managing Director and pilot John Romain. It was not John’s first flight in this particular aircraft though, as it is also the one in which he had his very first Spitfire flight, as a passenger, back in the 1990’s.

Following extensive flight testing, the aircraft was awarded it's Permit to Fly by the CAA. It emerged onto the busy airshow scene in 2005, where it was distinctive not only for its unusual colour scheme, but because it is the only Tr.9 to be flying in its original colours and configuration. All the others fly in colour schemes representing their time as single seat fighter variants.

In March 2007 the Dutch owner had the aircraft painted in Royal Netherlands Air Force colours, and she now represents ‘H98’, one of three Spitfire Trainers sold to the Netherlands in March 1948. The aircraft showed off her new colours at the Antwerp Airshow in May.


although i agree that the Grace Spit looks better, it seems that these TR9s are more authentic :p

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Re: Spitfire for sale

Postby Ducati Boy » Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:38 pm

Spitfire wrote:Saw the title of the thread and thought the forum was trying to hint at something :p :p

Nice plane .... but as you know I'm a bit of a shape purist and this particular aircraft has an awful rear cockpit shape - it looks dreadful... :-o :-o

It needs the Nick Grace rear cockpit conversion - now that is stylish... especially how the 2 cockpits are joined by the perspex tunnel ... nice ;)

Image

Compared to this monstrosity ......

Image

Having said that - it's a Spitfire for sale and would I say no --- I don't think so :)) :))


Blimey Spitfire, a purist rating the virtues of the impure :-o Imperfect is still imperfect even if it's less imperfect I reckon. Ugly would be too cruel, but they both look like they have diffrent sizes of carbunkle to me, nowhere as neat as the Mustang twin sticker. They still sound nice though ;) :ymdevil:
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Re: Spitfire for sale

Postby Spitfire » Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:52 pm

Ducati Boy wrote:Blimey Spitfire, a purist rating the virtues of the impure :-o Imperfect is still imperfect even if it's less imperfect I reckon. Ugly would be too cruel, but they both look like they have diffrent sizes of carbunkle to me, nowhere as neat as the Mustang twin sticker. They still sound nice though ;) :ymdevil:


An interesting point - well made ;) :D I do have very defined ideas about Spitfire shapes but interestingly I have always liked the Grace Spit as its been so sympathetically done by Nick Grace - and its even become known as the Grace conversion. So to see that horrendous one that's for sale just annoys me when I know how it CAN be done :D :X

And it IS a MK IX :p :D
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Re: Spitfire for sale

Postby Ducati Boy » Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:16 pm

Spitfire wrote:
Ducati Boy wrote:Blimey Spitfire, a purist rating the virtues of the impure :-o Imperfect is still imperfect even if it's less imperfect I reckon. Ugly would be too cruel, but they both look like they have diffrent sizes of carbunkle to me, nowhere as neat as the Mustang twin sticker. They still sound nice though ;) :ymdevil:


An interesting point - well made ;) :D I do have very defined ideas about Spitfire shapes but interestingly I have always liked the Grace Spit as its been so sympathetically done by Nick Grace - and its even become known as the Grace conversion. So to see that horrendous one that's for sale just annoys me when I know how it CAN be done :D :X

And it IS a MK IX :p :D


Sadly, unlike the Mustang the Mk IX airframe canopy line didn't lend itself to an aerodynamic, attractive and practical solution to an instructor pilots position. The result was the effective if somewhat inelegant and unloveable appearance of the Dutch and Irish variants.

Given the restrictions of the Mk IX airframe, I have to agree the Grace Spit looks the better visually, but is it actually as good a practical proposition as a trainer compared with the Dutch and Irish variants?

However, if the conversions had been done on say a post Mk XIV bubble canopy airframe it would have looked quite lovely and easily as natural looking as the TF-51Mustangs at Stallion 51 at Kissimee, don't you think? :D
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Re: Spitfire for sale

Postby Spitfire » Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:37 pm

Ducati Boy wrote: TF-51Mustangs at Stallion 51 at Kissimee :D


Are those the ones with the Messerschmitt Bubble car strapped on the top :p :p

Now you also mention 'practicality' as a trainer ....what's that all about :-o :-o :-o I am looking at the aesthetic lines - and don't give a rats arse about how practical it is =)) =))

Grace conversion wins every time :D :D :p
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Re: Spitfire for sale

Postby Saracenman » Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:45 pm

i guess it's all about the ART.............. :p
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Re: Spitfire for sale

Postby Spitfire » Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:49 pm

Yeah and at least there's no holes in them :p
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Re: Spitfire for sale

Postby Dan4th » Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:20 pm

Davey:

1) The one you hate is "authentic".

2) The one you luv isn't.

SHEESH!

I'll wager you wouldn't turn down a ride in
the "authentic" one on aesthetic grounds.....

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Re: Spitfire for sale

Postby Ducati Boy » Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:43 pm

Spitfire wrote:
Ducati Boy wrote: TF-51Mustangs at Stallion 51 at Kissimee :D


Are those the ones with the Messerschmitt Bubble car strapped on the top :p :p

Now you also mention 'practicality' as a trainer ....what's that all about :-o :-o :-o I am looking at the aesthetic lines - and don't give a rats arse about how practical it is =)) =))

Grace conversion wins every time :D :D :p


The undeniably beautiful and original design TF-51 needs no defence, it was and still is an effective trainer of warbird pilots and US Gov't test pilots. :D

The original Spitfire trainer you quoted was an effective pilot trainer and is a "genuine"example of a Spitfire variant, albeit, admittedly not very pretty. :D

The Grace Spitfire, whilst no doubt quite a pretty "conversion" to allow for a second ride, it is nontheless one man's personal modification and is NOT a genuine Spitfire variant! :ymdevil: :ymdevil: :p

Given you don't give a rat's arse how practical the Grace Spitfire actually is, one must conclude you are after all happy with perfectly imperfect perfection! :p =)) =)) =)) =)) =)) =))
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Re: Spitfire for sale

Postby Saracenman » Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:59 pm

my kind neighbour has just dropped a copy of 'Britain at War Magazine' through the door - it has an update on how much the Spitfire made at auction................

£1,739,500


:ymapplause:
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Re: Spitfire for sale

Postby Jigsaw » Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:15 pm

WOW :ymapplause:
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Re: Spitfire for sale

Postby Spitfire » Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:37 pm

And then he's got to insure it - maintain it - hangar it - get spares for it - the list & bank balance must be endless :-o :-o
Carolyn Grace hires hers out for special occasions and even for 'tasteful' ashes scattering and I think she's only just managing to keep it viable. If only the rules and reg's would allow paying passengers the 2 seaters would make a fortune ... I'd pay handsomly for a ride no matter what it looked like :p :ymdaydream: :ymdaydream:

I'd even pay to sit in a cockpit of an airworthy Spitfire on the ground :-@
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Re: Spitfire for sale

Postby Ducati Boy » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:58 pm

Spitfire wrote:And then he's got to insure it - maintain it - hangar it - get spares for it - the list & bank balance must be endless :-o :-o
Carolyn Grace hires hers out for special occasions and even for 'tasteful' ashes scattering and I think she's only just managing to keep it viable. If only the rules and reg's would allow paying passengers the 2 seaters would make a fortune ... I'd pay handsomly for a ride no matter what it looked like :p :ymdaydream: :ymdaydream:

I'd even pay to sit in a cockpit of an airworthy Spitfire on the ground :-@


Me too! but this one was free B-) B-) :ymdevil:

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Re: Spitfire for sale

Postby Saracenman » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:18 pm

showoff! posting pictures of freebie seats in iconic aeroplanes - disgraceful! =))

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Re: Spitfire for sale

Postby Ducati Boy » Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:05 pm

Saracenman wrote:showoff! posting pictures of freebie seats in iconic aeroplanes - disgraceful! =))

sm
Guilty as charged me lud! :)) :)) :)) :)) :))

Have another :p :p :ymdevil: :ymdevil: :ymdevil:

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