Engineering Director

[Hungry Haggis]

It points to a unsubstantiated, one sided version of a incident that may or maynot have happend, alot like most of what is posted on fora regarding the operation of the Vulcan. the point i have been trying to make is.........you know what? i've forgotton. so instead of trying to make it i shall get the person involved to come on here and fill you all in with the juicy details.

The point I think you were trying to introduce was this someone (who I forget now) some time back used what I think was a copyrighted trade mark or was about to on T shirts and got in hot water over it from TVOC etc as the T shirts had not been submitted for authorization or something like that .I do recall it caused a bit of bother at the time . I believe that since then possibly the same person(correct me if wrong Please )got authorization to do more the following season and since .So I think that issue was resolved at the time .I do not now remember it all so forgive me if I am incorrect in any of this .I put it down to having a scrambled brain and a bad memory.

[Nickolas]

Thanks Mods for your 'Common sense' approach to this thread.

Nickolas

[MadNaddy]

I'm just gonna say something and then leave this alone.....

I know personally that many of our opinions are based on FACTS we are given from trust staff....... regarding the shortcomings of certain people in management roles. I'm not speaking of one person in particular here.

When you are put in such a responsible position you are expected to be able to do the job consistently (or I am deluding myself here ) We have had many instances where Management have FAILED, and it has been the troops who have CONSISTENTLY rallied around and got the work done and the Management have taken the 'glory' (for want of a better word). Thankfully we have amazing staff working with 558.... and volunteers too.

If the troops think about all the leg work they do/have done because someone above them isn't capable, and then focus on the praise that you receive which is totally due to you - I'm sure you'll be able to ignore all the other stuff about the Management that keeps coming up. PLEASE!

What is clear here is the love and respect everyone has for the troops, past and present, who work/have worked with 558. If you weren't the people you are and got on with things when they've needed doing, well, I'll stop here.

And yes, I know I'll probably be slated, but this is MY experience and MY opinion.

Oh and I'm sorry for raising the subject about T-shirts many moons ago. But I'm glad the idea took off

[Sooty655]

I'm just gonna say something and then leave this alone.....

I know personally that many of our opinions are based on FACTS we are given from trust staff....... regarding the shortcomings of certain people in management roles. I'm not speaking of one person in particular here.

When you are put in such a responsible position you are expected to be able to do the job consistently (or I am deluding myself here ) We have had many instances where Management have FAILED, and it has been the troops who have CONSISTENTLY rallied around and got the work done and the Management have taken the 'glory' (for want of a better word). Thankfully we have amazing staff working with 558.... and volunteers too.

If the troops think about all the leg work they do/have done because someone above them isn't capable, and then focus on the praise that you receive which is totally due to you - I'm sure you'll be able to ignore all the other stuff about the Management that keeps coming up. PLEASE!

What is clear here is the love and respect everyone has for the troops, past and present, who work/have worked with 558. If you weren't the people you are and got on with things when they've needed doing, well, I'll stop here.

And yes, I know I'll probably be slated, but this is MY experience and MY opinion.

Oh and I'm sorry for raising the subject about T-shirts many moons ago. But I'm glad the idea took off

Not sure why you think you'll be slated. Seems to me your post sums up very well the opinions of many (and probably most) of the folks who have been expressing their concerns on this topic for so long.

There's bound to be the ODD one or two who disagree, but by now we are well used to them.

[Air]

It points to a unsubstantiated, one sided version of a incident that may or maynot have happend, alot like most of what is posted on fora regarding the operation of the Vulcan. the point i have been trying to make is.........you know what? i've forgotton. so instead of trying to make it i shall get the person involved to come on here and fill you all in with the juicy details.

The point I think you were trying to introduce was this someone (who I forget now) some time back used what I think was a copyrighted trade mark or was about to on T shirts and got in hot water over it from TVOC etc as the T shirts had not been submitted for authorization or something like that .I do recall it caused a bit of bother at the time.

Well if that's true then TVOC had every right to protect their intellectual property, even if there were the best of intentions regarding it's use.

[Phantom2]

It points to a unsubstantiated, one sided version of a incident that may or maynot have happend, alot like most of what is posted on fora regarding the operation of the Vulcan. the point i have been trying to make is.........you know what? i've forgotton. so instead of trying to make it i shall get the person involved to come on here and fill you all in with the juicy details.

I am intrigued... as a former admin employee of the Trust and long term club committee member I have heard nothing of this occurence.... I look farward to clarification.

[Xplumberlives]

It points to a unsubstantiated, one sided version of a incident that may or maynot have happend, alot like most of what is posted on fora regarding the operation of the Vulcan. the point i have been trying to make is.........you know what? i've forgotton. so instead of trying to make it i shall get the person involved to come on here and fill you all in with the juicy details.

We await your post with all the details Mr Eames.

[Gully]

Think we're all intrigued!

Gully

[P.eames]

It points to a unsubstantiated, one sided version of a incident that may or maynot have happend, alot like most of what is posted on fora regarding the operation of the Vulcan. the point i have been trying to make is.........you know what? i've forgotton. so instead of trying to make it i shall get the person involved to come on here and fill you all in with the juicy details.

The point I think you were trying to introduce was this someone (who I forget now) some time back used what I think was a copyrighted trade mark or was about to on T shirts and got in hot water over it from TVOC etc as the T shirts had not been submitted for authorization or something like that .I do recall it caused a bit of bother at the time . I believe that since then possibly the same person(correct me if wrong Please )got authorization to do more the following season and since .So I think that issue was resolved at the time .I do not now remember it all so forgive me if I am incorrect in any of this .I put it down to having a scrambled brain and a bad memory.

For the second time i was not refering to the t-shirt episode and no that is not my point.

I used the legal threat as an example to try to make a point and as HH post shows that has been ignored as people focus on a bit of juicy gossip.

Madnaddy says that opinions are based on facts from trust staff. How do you know that they are facts? It is often the case when people convey "facts" that the context of a situation or conversation is changed or little details are left out etc.

take for example an employee moaning " old smith did this and that and its totally crap", what we don't know is why smith did what he did and if any other way was possible. Now do you see my point? What i was saying is that even though "facts" may come from trust staff they cannot be relied upon and certainly not reported on unless you have both sides of the story as there is often far more to a situation.

[Xplumberlives]

Very interesting, but where is your answer after offering the following - "so instead of trying to make it i shall get the person involved to come on here and fill you all in with the juicy details"?

[P.eames]

Very interesting, but where is your answer after offering the following - "so instead of trying to make it i shall get the person involved to come on here and fill you all in with the juicy details"?

Errr....as i am not the person involved you will have to wait for that person, i've asked so it's up to them.

[Xplumberlives]

Oh, I thought you already had their agreement when you offered the forwarding of such interesting information!

Once again Mr Eames we await your and your friends indulgence.

[P.eames]

He didnt mind me mentioning it (his words were "don't give a ****") but in the interests of accuracy i shall leave the details to him. I'm sure you can understand.

[Xplumberlives]

Yes I understand, looking forward to the details though!

[Air]

It's a shame that Mr Edmondson either isn't allowed or doesn't want to post on these forums.

I bet people wouldn't be quite as harsh about him if he were active here and able to answer some of the criticism against him 'face to face' so to speak.

Sadly the fact that he has no right of reply only allows those of us without any knowledge of him to hear the negative aspect of his involvement within TVOC, which is a shame.

[Xplumberlives]

I am sure he would be able to register and do as you say,

[Checkflaps]

One option - if you all want a 'face to face' with Trust personnel.

There is a little soiree going on this weekend coming at the March Hare in Worcester. A great day out and there is apparently going to be a good selection of trust members there to support the day and any of the fundraising.

Whilst not suggesting that people gatecrash the party (as I am sure as club members we can attend anyway), I would think that helping the fundraising AND meeting the people who 'spend' the funds raised, would be enough of a reason to attend. And I am sure that poeple would behave impecably.

Why not ask, politely, if they could answer a few questions - to be published on a forum - to help dispell any untruths that may exist and clarify any uncertainties. That way, you get the answer from the horses mouth, they know what was said, and you can pass on information to anybody who cannot attend and is also not aware of the information.

Long winded I know. But, they are available to talk to if you go to the right places.

Enough from me.

G

[Xplumberlives]

One option - if you all want a 'face to face' with Trust personnel.

There is a little soiree going on this weekend coming at the March Hare in Worcester. A great day out and there is apparently going to be a good selection of trust members there to support the day and any of the fundraising.

Whilst not suggesting that people gatecrash the party (as I am sure as club members we can attend anyway), I would think that helping the fundraising AND meeting the people who 'spend' the funds raised, would be enough of a reason to attend. And I am sure that poeple would behave impecably.

Why not ask, politely, if they could answer a few questions - to be published on a forum - to help dispell any untruths that may exist and clarify any uncertainties. That way, you get the answer from the horses mouth, they know what was said, and you can pass on information to anybody who cannot attend and is also not aware of the information.

Long winded I know. But, they are available to talk to if you go to the right places.

Enough from me.

G

A very interesting idea!

[Old Rigger]

Thanks for your post Pam, appreciate and understand the logic behind both decisions. Democracy at it's finest

[Phantom2]

One option - if you all want a 'face to face' with Trust personnel.

There is a little soiree going on this weekend coming at the March Hare in Worcester. A great day out and there is apparently going to be a good selection of trust members there to support the day and any of the fundraising.

Whilst not suggesting that people gatecrash the party (as I am sure as club members we can attend anyway), I would think that helping the fundraising AND meeting the people who 'spend' the funds raised, would be enough of a reason to attend. And I am sure that poeple would behave impecably.

Why not ask, politely, if they could answer a few questions - to be published on a forum - to help dispell any untruths that may exist and clarify any uncertainties. That way, you get the answer from the horses mouth, they know what was said, and you can pass on information to anybody who cannot attend and is also not aware of the information.


G

Don't forget your valid membership cards


.

[Nickolas]

Personally I don't think the event at the weekend is the appropriate place for any form of questioning.

It would alienate any TVOC people from ever attending such an event again for fear of an 'inquisition'.

It would sour an otherwise fun day with EVERYONE pulling in the same direction (for once) to raise funding.

It would be totally disrespectful of the March Hare, and VTTS organisers who will have put an immense amount of time and effort into what has become a much appreciated event. (Speaking from the outside as I have never managed to get there).

That's my opinion.

I'd hate to see the slow thaw of the TVOC information trail suddenly freeze up again.

[Sploosher]

I am sure he would be able to register and do as you say,

I dont see why he should not be permitted, it is after all, a public forum.................

[Dougs]

Dougs,

With respect, I can't agree with you at all there. What you are saying makes a mockery of the whole idea of CV's and the need to have relevent experience in a particular branch. By your views, I could tomorrow apply for a Consultant Heart Surgeon's role, on the premise that I'm a dynamic manager, and can manage all of the actual surgeons who actually DO know how to carry out a triple bypass operation. I'm sure that not only would I be in a brilliant position as to judge when things are not being done correctly, but I would be held in the highest regard and could garner the utmost respect of my workforce, couldn't I?.... or then again perhaps not.....


Flipflopman

hi FFM
to clear up what i was saying; that you dont have to have relevent JOB experiance, just good managerial skills so no if you were a manager you would NOT be removing hearts, as a Surgeon would do that for you!
i was only comenting on the interest on the cv, the chap may well be an incompetant tosser and you would obviously be quallified to comment on that as you worked for him. i was only making the point that you can manage people with skills that you dont have, some of the best managers i have known are not qualified in the areas they manage and do command respect from the workforce because of their personality not their skill base.

all the best doug

[Hungry Haggis]

Have to agree with Nick on that one .A fun day/fundraiser event like that at March Hare is not a place to try and put people on the spot or alienate them .OK there are bits missing from some and I do mean more than one here CV extracts on the TVOC site .But think about it this way would you really like to be the person responsible for spoiling everyones day by possibly causing an argument in the middle of a number of supporters out to try and raise money to save 558 I know i wouldn't .The important item here more so than Anyones missing bits is after all 558 if we want to see her fly again .Management for what it's worth are not the people that are hands on the aircraft it's people like Smiler DB FFM etc that put her where we all would like to see her .my reading of the previous posts may be flawed but do we want to alienate people like Smiler & DB who give us on here as much info as is asked for in the restraints of their jobs .For which I feel we should thank them and stop winding them up the wrong way .The management of TVOC etc have never answered questions criticism or anything like that on any open forum that I am aware of and I can't see them starting now .
OK thats my Moan out of the way I'm out of here or at least this topic and won't be posting again on it .

[Mayfly]

I think you have summed it up nicely HH.

Iconic does have a rule of free speech - but as with every thing else in life there are times & places when saying what you think is appropriate & sometimes it it is not. Also the way something is written is very important - we all don't have the same skills with the written word - but respect for each other & thinking how you express your comments will ensure a more reasoned debate.

We are lucky to have the engineers as part of out members team - other than TVOC forum I don't know of any forums they frequent on a regular basis. I have already noticed at least 3 don't partake as much as they once did.

As Iconic grows we are going to get a wider expressed point of view.


To not one in particular but everyone in general.........

I know we all hold the engineers past & present in high esteem, There are some very well thought out replies in this and other threads but by no means all. Please think twice about what you post and way you phrase it, if the engineers decided to leave IA it will be the rest of us who are losers in the long run! constant knocking for knocking sake does become tiresome...............


Mayfly [in my every day hat]