558 Funding Update

[Xplumberlives]

THEM'S FIGHTIN' WORDS!

Well indeed, let's hope the fight is joined!!!!!

Something needs to give in the 558 world!

[Mayfly]

I think there is a danger of thinking that because some have said they won't give this time around that they have stopped supporting 558 - I know of at least 4 on here who have given of their time/expertise/talent which is far in excess of any money they could afford to give could buy.

[Xplumberlives]

I think there is a danger of thinking that because some have said they won't give this time around that they have stopped supporting 558 - I know of at least 4 on here who have given of their time/expertise/talent which is far in excess of any money they could afford to give could buy.

Good point, the argument is not with 558 but some of the management!

[PhantomAviator]

Whilst I agree with most of your post, I must say I disagree with the 2nd part of your last sentence.
To my knowledge Mr Edmondson has given up much of his own time to support the project from the start.

so? very many of US have given up considerable amounts of our own time as well. we don't get a VTS salary!

giving up any amount of time doesn't automatically make someone good at their job!

i genuinely believe that Dr. Pleming just doesn't have the FIRST idea just how much goes on behind the scenes by some very dedicated and passionate volunteers. he may say "thank you" from time to time but, on more than one occasion, he's been prompted to do so! even then, he still fails to see just how much has been achieved by people he doesn't even know!

sm

I didn't say that others hadn't given up their time.
But as I understand it Mr Edmondson works for TVOC and not The Trustees. Mr Pleming is on the Board of Trustees, which does I think make a difference.
I feel sure that FFM (Ron) will agree that Andrew was present some days at 03:00hrs along with marshalls engineers and TVOC Engineers. But I do not remember that it was ever stated or agreed that Mr Pleming was.
I agree that many people gave and are still giving up their time for the aircraft.
Many of the engineers actually slept at Bruntingthorpe during the restoration.
I also agree that the volunteers in many instances are treated with no respect from some of the TVOC management.
Many is the time where a Thank You would have helped to raise morale, but there was and I think still is management who only think of themselves and how they will come across to others outside of TVOC.
No-one should be more praised than the people who have given not only their time for nothing but also their money to support the aircrafts return to sky.
But as with most things where people are treated like mushrooms, they will only put up with so much.
I used to give generously but only to be asked for more.
They always seemed to return to the one's who have given and continued to give rather than actually go out and find others who may give.
My wallet clips are now closed and that is the way they will stay until I can be shown otherwise.
This was my of thinking at the start of the last flying season, after learning that she cost more to do a display than she got for doing the display.

[Wedgy]

Imagine this:

You are XH558 .... a pop star.
You have a manager .... in the last 2 years, your manager has missed countless opportunities to promote you. Has been so tied up in red tape, by the time they book you for Glastonbury - the festival season finished 2 months ago. Your manager now has such a bad reputation, that recording studios refuse to give you favourable terms - some even refuse to deal with you.

Would you still be willing to pay your manager, year after year?

[Xplumberlives]

Imagine this:
You are XH558 .... a pop star.
You have a manager .... in the last 2 years, your manager has missed countless opportunities to promote you. Has been so tied up in red tape, by the time they book you for Glastonbury - the festival season finished 2 months ago. Your manager now has such a bad reputation, that recording studios refuse to give you favourable terms - some even refuse to deal with you.
Would you still be willing to pay your manager, year after year?

Good analogy Wedgington!

[Saracenman]

Mr. Edmondson works for VTS Trust - TVOC is a 'shell company' for want of a better term. his immediate boss is Dr. Pleming, CEO of VTST, and also Chairman of the Trustees - something of a conflict of interest if you ask me!

who has the authority to replace Dr. P? it should be the Trustees, shouldn't it?

I've said this before i know, but after the restoration finished and many engineers were laid off (as they knew they would be), just how many of the management were laid off? do we really need the same number of managers as we did during restoration?

the only manager not there any longer is Rusty Drewett, who retired!

again PhantomA - does Mr. Edmondson's presence on site at 0300 hrs prove he's GOOD AT HIS JOB? sadly, he has been at the sharp end of several issues this year alone, which would suggest we could have a FAR better Engineering Manager. perhaps we wouldn't have had the PtoF fiasco, or the earlier engine corrosion delay, or the later u/c issue.

yes, he's a thoroughly nice bloke, as is Dr. Pleming - but being nice doesn't make a good manager!

sm

[Pujgnie]

I think there is a danger of thinking that because some have said they won't give this time around that they have stopped supporting 558 - I know of at least 4 on here who have given of their time/expertise/talent which is far in excess of any money they could afford to give could buy.

Good point, the argument is not with 558 but some of the management!

I agree... that there are underlying issues - and I appreciate the efforts of all those that Pam has mentioned.

My immediate Q is - can these issues be put on the back burner for now... ? - and address in more detail the funding issue ? (Or is the management feeling running too high for some ?)

558 is what we all love.. we have fought her cause on many an occassion (despite all odds)... time to do it again surely. She is worth it. Other issues can be addressed at a future time surely ?

Now is not the time for arguments and doubts from within.

JMO (again )

[Exceptionalsleeper]

The management issue is still there and can't be forgotten so unfortunately not, I'd prefer to and do donate to a more needy cause - Help for Heroes!

[Saracenman]

i see your point P. Knees, but when would you like this endless funding nonsense to end?

it's happened over and over again, and will continue for evermore, unless the whole thing is treated like the BUSINESS it is, rather than an extension to a restoration 'project'

the timing has always been unfortunate before - without digging deep, the restoration would never have been competed - then the rest of the test flights in April 2008, then the display season itself. even the pledge this year was at the start of the season. we've always been between a rock and a hard place - dig deep for ANY chance to see 558 fly.

you agree there are underlying issues which need to be sorted - well what better time than NOW? we've reached the end of the season, and have several months to put together VTST Mk.2, made up of individuals who know what to do to further 558's future

I'm afraid that, with inept management who refuse to budge, receivership looks like the only way to get rid of those who ARE the "underlying issue"!

bloody tragic for all those who'll lose their jobs, of course it is, but what other solution IS there?

sm

[PhantomAviator]

I know of one person who spends most of their time playing Patience on the PC.

[Xplumberlives]

I know of one person who spends most of their time playing Patience on the PC.

ONLY ONE!

[Mayfly]

well its not me because I spend all my time on Iconic

[PhantomAviator]

I know of one person who spends most of their time playing Patience on the PC.

ONLY ONE!

There used to be 2 but one was sacked, (well asked to leave).

[Saracenman]

there's nowt wrong with a staff member playing pooter games, but only if their WORK is done! i used to send staff home early if they'd done everything

i couldn't care less if Dr. P and AE spent every Friday playing Twister together, as long as VTS was efficient, effective and well organised!

sm

[Mayfly]

well as long as they're not paid to sit there all week playing pooter games

[PhantomAviator]

there's nowt wrong with a staff member playing pooter games, but only if their WORK is done! i used to send staff home early if they'd done everything

i couldn't care less if Dr. P and AE spent every Friday playing Twister together, as long as VTS was efficient, effective and well organised!

sm

I agree, but it brings round full circle of public's money raised by donations being used to pay a member of staff to sit at a PC for sometimes 4 days in a row playing PC games.

A job that one of the volunteers could do, thus saving a salary and a job then being done more cost efficient.

[Saracenman]

i completely agree with that.

whilst VTST do have certain CAA constraints as to who needs to be an employed member of staff, I'm certain that cost saving could be made in several areas, with the use of keen and willing volunteers

I've said all along that costs should be cut before crying out for further funding. i know that there are at least two Club Committee members who're constantly putting pressure on the Trust in that respect.

i do get fed up with people who think that EVERYTHING should be voluntary - clearly it can't, and also those who think that Dr. P is only interested in lining his own pocket. from what i know, nothing could be further from the truth!

the existing Education Manager is a prime example of wasted resources. whilst she has done some impressive things lately, with the new Teacher and Learning Pack, a through-put of 460 children visiting Brunty in 14 months, and a teddy-bear Facebook page do not, in my opinion, warrant two years' salary!

sm

[Xplumberlives]

So;

Dr. P
A.E.
M.T.

Any others that should do the honourable thing?

[Saracenman]

well that in itself is at least £100,000 annually!

[Hungry Haggis]

i see your point P. Knees, but when would you like this endless funding nonsense to end?

it's happened over and over again, and will continue for evermore, unless the whole thing is treated like the BUSINESS it is, rather than an extension to a restoration 'project'

the timing has always been unfortunate before - without digging deep, the restoration would never have been competed - then the rest of the test flights in April 2008, then the display season itself. even the pledge this year was at the start of the season. we've always been between a rock and a hard place - dig deep for ANY chance to see 558 fly.

you agree there are underlying issues which need to be sorted - well what better time than NOW? we've reached the end of the season, and have several months to put together VTST Mk.2, made up of individuals who know what to do to further 558's future

I'm afraid that, with inept management who refuse to budge, receivership looks like the only way to get rid of those who ARE the "underlying issue"!

bloody tragic for all those who'll lose their jobs, of course it is, but what other solution IS there?

sm

They should as everyone here knows be fundraising for the following season instead of A**ing around trying to screw everyone for more so that they can have a pay rise and then try to fund the winter service and fund that season( this will only work on a very short term if they haven't built up funds then they will surely fall on their face.) .If enough money isn't being raised then they need to expand somehow ,other charities have shops in many towns at very little or no rents with I bet some not even paying comercial rates .the pitifull amount of stuff in the online shop is an area that needs to expand to raise revinue right across the country .All shops are staffed by volenteers OK old gits on a pension ,the manager is as far as I am aware in most the only one that gets paid.Surely this has been thought of but rejected as to much hastle or similarA shop with the Vulcan logo on it's front on some high streets out there would help raise funds ,OK might be slow to begin (because they seem to stick to Leicestershire)nothing against that county but they need to get out further.

[Spitfire]

it's happened over and over again, and will continue for evermore, unless the whole thing is treated like the BUSINESS it is, rather than an extension to a restoration 'project' sm

That's a very very good point - well put .... she's restored now - and very well done to those who did it....... but now it's time to move forward and form a profitable business out of her appearances and future well being with a more experienced business oriented management team.

[Xplumberlives]

it's happened over and over again, and will continue for evermore, unless the whole thing is treated like the BUSINESS it is, rather than an extension to a restoration 'project' sm

That's a very very good point - well put .... she's restored now - and very well done to those who did it....... but now it's time to move forward and form a profitable business out of her appearances and future well being with a more experienced business oriented management team.

And if that requires someone to step down, then so be it!

Otherwise the outfit will only continue to STUMBLE on at best!

[Mayfly]

Changing tack on this current run of posts,

What is the best way of increasing the revenue for 558?


Speaking personally here:- I have always, whatever the cause, disagreed with just handing money over - I personally prefer to buy something. Thinking about the Club merchandise am I one of a number who fall through the cracks or am I just awkward [XP I already know your views ]


I don't do 'corporate' clothing [& in any case dislike in tensely the gold planform vulcan - to my mind it looks like a squashed moth & old fashioned - it would have been better in white or camo] so most of what they sell I wouldn't buy. I don't like pot mugs - coffee goes cold far too quickly, and again their PC bags diaries etc are emblazoned with the planform vulcan. We have more pictures, paintings & photos than we have wall space for.
I do however think the umbrella sporting Charles Toops 'Up & Away' photo is the bees knees but I already have 2 of theses & did buy the cook book because its useful.
I think most parents grandparents will buy, even when times are hard for children but again with a nephew & step-grandson both in their teens that doesn't apply either, but I did buy 3 VV books for our local schools that my nephew attended.

So what else could the Club produce that would entice me to buy I'm struggling here unless they revert to some less corporate image clothing?

[Sickbag_andy]

I think there is a danger of thinking that because some have said they won't give this time around that they have stopped supporting 558 - I know of at least 4 on here who have given of their time/expertise/talent which is far in excess of any money they could afford to give could buy.

I have stated elsewhere that I won't be contributing this time, not so much as I don't want to but more not able to. I am paying a substantial monthly standing order as a result of the previous campaign and cannot reasonably afford to pay out any extra. however I will continue to support the project at my current standing order level, so for me it won't be a case of no longer supporting because I'm not giving this time but a case of not increasing my support.

From reading other posts there are others in a similar situation. I stretched myself financially to help save the project last time and cannot stretch any further hence my decision.