Is This Right Or Wrong?

[P.eames]

I have just been taking a look at the VTTS guest book and came across this, is this sort of thing right? It looks like it is a case of "only good experiences are allowed here" type of thinking, sort of censoring.


Message GENERAL NOTE TO ALL:

This guestbook has been provided so the public can express their "558 Experiences." We have seen many wonderful stories of how the Aircraft moves people or brings back memories.

Those are what we wish to capture for the benefit of all.

Please consider joining the Club and the online forum if you wish to express personal opinions on the project.

Any future posts that break this guideline will be removed by the moderators.

Thank you.

Heard about Website Google
Posted 1/4/2010 2:10:51 PM

[Xplumberlives]

Big brother says you must be nice about us and our Vulcan!

[Sooty655]

We can do no wrong. If you think we have done wrong, you are wrong. Therefore we can do no wrong.

Repeat ad nauseam.

[Saracenman]

hmmm

whilst i don't think it's right, I'm not sure what else they could have done. it WOULD be wrong if it were to turn into nothing more than a complaint book!

sm

[Xplumberlives]

hmmm

whilst i don't think it's right, I'm not sure what else they could have done. it WOULD be wrong if it were to turn into nothing more than a complaint book!

sm

Then like some other people they shouldn't give cause for people to complain!

[Mayfly]

I thought it was brave to have a guest book in the first plce - I've never read it so can only assume there have been some poor comments but on an open website they would get that anyway - theres always some one ready to complain or even just wind peeps up.

[Pujgnie]

Guest books are for honest opinions by those who contribute - and 'should' give a feed back as to how things are.

Many Museums/Places Of Interest have them - it is open to all - and all comments can be read. It is a place to post your comments (for better or for worse). If you think a Museum lighting is crap or facilities are bad - you can comment on it. The book gets read and things are remedied.

Editing it to show only the 'good side' detracts from the original purpose of it surely ?

JMO

[Hungry Haggis]

having scimmed through it I see it as a goody 2 shoes don't critisise us book therefore totally false.

[Xplumberlives]

Perhaps they should rename the pages!

[Cluny]

Would you mind if i borrow that extra 'e' XPL ?

[Xplumberlives]

Fill ya' boots

[Air]

Message GENERAL NOTE TO ALL:

This guestbook has been provided so the public can express their "558 Experiences." We have seen many wonderful stories of how the Aircraft moves people or brings back memories.

Those are what we wish to capture for the benefit of all.

Please consider joining the Club and the online forum if you wish to express personal opinions on the project.

Any future posts that break this guideline will be removed by the moderators.

Thank you.

Heard about Website Google
Posted 1/4/2010 2:10:51 PM

From the wording above, it just seems to me that perhaps some people have used the guest book to whinge about the project/club/trust in general, when the guest book is predominantly there to write about your stories and experiences of the aircraft.

I don't personally see a problem with removing posts like that as it's doesn't seem to be what the guest book was intended for.

As it says, if you wish to express personal opinions on the project, join the club. Or maybe UKAR

[Spitfire]

[2 pennorth mode]
If you visit a Bed & Breakfast place or rent a cottage for a week there is normally a 'Guest Book' provided by the owners.

In there you see a myriad of comments about all types of things that the writers thought were exceptionally good - just plain good - bad - and awful. Some give comments like - 'this was bad but you could change it by doing this'

From this the owners soon learn what they are doing right and what they are doing wrong - and when they are doing it wrong - if its mentioned a lot - they can also learn how to make it better.

So - thus ergo - a Guest Book is to garner opinion - both good and bad.

I mean what earthly good to anyone would a guest book in a B&B or rented accomodation be if it said on the front cover - 'Guest book for your positive comments only please'

The old adage is surely - 'IF WE PLEASE YOU TELL OTHERS - IF WE DONT PLEASE TELL US'

Therefore IMHO - its plain wrong - write what you want in a Guest Book - that's what its for. [/2 pennorth mode]

[PiperArrow28]

As the originator of the concept on the site and the above quoted post, I feel I ought to comment:

The Guest Book is indeed there to put up Good or Bad experiences on seeing the Aircraft....

i.e.
What a Great Display, it reminded me of when I saw her/Vulcan's at ......
or:
I traveled all the way to Waddington and can't believe she did not display etc .....

It is not intended to be an open discussion place with people asking questions, expressing opinions on policies, or having personal digs at certain individuals, which had all started to happen.

This is mainly due to:
1. No function for a common right of reply as in a normal forum environment.
2. No major moderation is operated. Even mods do not visit it often, as it is not "social."

Despite what some might think, posts that are not offensive, yet critical - will be tolerated.

In short, it is a fine line between a Guest Book that becomes an open discussion that quickly degrades the original purpose of providing stories and memories for all to read, to that which acts as an attraction to potential sponsors.

There are closed "membership" forums already in place that can provide this service, (oh!-here is one) so why just create another one and not at least have something of a certain quality that can be used to serve a purpose?

Indeed, if I remember correctly, it was a wayward Guest Book on an old site that ended up forcing Paul Spann to create the original Vulcan site forum/s.

We all want to see XH558 continue to fly, so do not think it is so much BIG BROTHER, but merely a tool that one day just might save you putting your hands in your pockets each year! Links to it have been sent to BIG BUSINESS.

Remember, it is not what you think about the running of the Project, but what audience a potential major sponsor can reach with a flying Vulcan, that can tip the scales.

Until one comes along, it seems to be down to us the public to carry on as best with what we have and the usual places to "have a rant."

....and YES:

It is a PROJECT and a BUSINESS!
We ARE PUSHING EDUCATION
We ARE looking beyond SPONSORSHIP TO MANY COMMERCIAL ACTIVITIES.....


Best Regards,
Ian.

[Phantom2]

As the originator of the concept on the site and the above quoted post, I feel I ought to comment:

.

This not the first time a guest book has been present on that site... I talked Dr Bob into putting one on some
8-10yrs ago, but it degenerated into a spam ridden chaos..... it was replaced by the now present Forum with all it's foibles....

[PiperArrow28]

I never said it was an original idea, just that I instigated its resurrection
I did mention something along those lines within the body of my reply.

Anyway: here is a typical reason for wanting to keep it to comments on the aircraft.

By GUEST poster:
I have today seen your new office in Hinckley, Leicestershire. Having given many donations to such a good project I feel that the large rents paid to Leicestershire County Council could be better spent on the aircraft.

..and by way of reply:
The trust have moved there and also to a Hangar at Lyneham to save nearly £10,000 per month.
That is indeed putting more money towards the aircraft.
Please look/sign up to the News Letter to keep up with developments.

So you can see, when used without recourse to debate or a degree of moderation, how the whole context of its purpose can be destroyed.

Edit:

Can I also add, using the B+B analogy - how many read the Guest Book when booking in?
No, you have a look at the room offered and see if you like the look of the place, then leave comment on departure.

With this type of Guest Book, your opinion can easily be mislead in advance, by simple mis-understandings or pure ignorance. When you have been involved, seen how things work, what has been achieved, what goes on in the background...... only then can you leave a valid and balanced opinion.

Yes, I know all those experienced will say "But I know this...", but then, why not let every individual make their own minds up, rather than tainting them right from the first possible point of contact.

Makes you wonder why we struggle to get more support - or does it?


Ian.

[Sooty655]

Anyway: here is a typical reason for wanting to keep it to comments on the aircraft.

By GUEST poster:
I have today seen your new office in Hinckley, Leicestershire. Having given many donations to such a good project I feel that the large rents paid to Leicestershire County Council could be better spent on the aircraft.

..and by way of reply:
The trust have moved there and also to a Hangar at Lyneham to save nearly £10,000 per month.
That is indeed putting more money towards the aircraft.
Please look/sign up to the News Letter to keep up with developments.

So you can see, when used without recourse to debate or a degree of moderation, how the whole context of its purpose can be destroyed.

Seems like a perfectly reasonable question and answer to me.

[Hungry Haggis]

This is not a guest book well actually it is for My old unit they call it a dream book these days http://books.dreambook.com/cbtradioman/main.html and this one is monitored regularly by the Committee of the association .people leave messages along with email contacts in there ,along the lines of I was part of/looking for ?? etc and it works I'm not aware of any missus of it but I think possibly when a message is left it is moderated before inclusion but not sure.

[Dlwbrunty]

I avoid posting on the site these days, not worth the aggro. The cat has more sense:- Wakes up,does a whoopsy, demands food, catches the odd mouse and goes to sleep til its time for the cycle to repeat itself. Metaphorically the Vulcan folks have been doing similar for years. Difference being, the cat costs me £10.00 per week and has got rid of some pests.Wish he could do the same job with 558's minders.............
I rest my case as its been a long day.

[Sploosher]

Surely a guest book is a means of letting people put in words how they feel, whether or not, the guest books owners agree or disagree with them.


Everyone is entitled to there own opinion,this is soemthing that the trust etc, cannot deny the public.

The public give contributions etc to see 588 fly and therefore have the right to post what they feel

[Air]

You're missing the point!

Even though I've never looked at the guest book, from the quote that was posted it was obvious they wanted peoples 'experiences' of the aircraft flying.

As has been said, if you let people start whining about expenses etc, it can soon get out of hand and detract from the real point of the guest book.

If someone had something to say such as 'the current display is rubbish', then perhaps it would be allowed to stay, as that would be an actual experience of seeing the aircraft flying which they may want to improve on.

As has been stated, any other discussion is best left to a forum, whether that be here, the official club forum or elsewhere.

Even as an outsider, I can see what they're getting at.

[Amanda_h]

It's a good job they don't have a suggestion box!

AJH

[Dan4th]

It's a good job they don't have a suggestion box!
AJH

They'd have to wear rubber gloves and a
mask to empty it!

D.