Engineering Director

[Flipflopman]

Not to say he needs to go on a diet or anything.....

D.

Oh right.....

But now that you mention it....


Flipflopman

[Xplumberlives]

No excuse required

Maybe not, Then again we only get a one sided view of whats going on don't we? It may be that some of those complaining have had direct experience but we don't know the other sides story do we?

Mr Stone said that it was an extract from Mr Edmundson's CV yet that didn't stop comments about his lack of experience around aircraft did it? I am more than aware of all sorts of tales and anecdotes of the managements short comings but when such things are relaid to me i never take them as a given fact for the obvious reasons. one for instance is the one about the club member who threatened legal action over trademark use, now thats hardly nice given the current financial situation is it? So the anecdotes of bad practice/poor attitude etc etc run both ways.

Would you care to elaborate upon your comment?

[Old Rigger]

one for instance is the one about the club member who threatened legal action over trademark use, now thats hardly nice given the current financial situation is it? So the anecdotes of bad practice/poor attitude etc etc run both ways]

I know of only one such story and it started with Rusty threatening to take said club member to court for breach of her copyright with regards to the Vulcan, on the particular subject in discussion at that time it was apparently pointed out to her that that particular copyright belonged to BAES and if she wished to continue down that route then it would be her (and anyone else behind her who had the same view and there is one or two who believed/still believe that everthing Vulcan belongs to them) then it was actually her/them who was breaching copyright.

So in actual fact it did not run both ways as it was Rusty who instigated it and was wrong, as she was on the other two occasions she tried that approach when offered assistance and one other person with a similar comment at Waddington who will remain nameless, but he knows who he is.

I see no issue with these anecdotes of bad practice/poor attitudes being highlighted and the timing of these getting 'out' after all this time is irrelevant, this apparently happened about two years ago. As the 'attitude' is still around and is pertinent to the issues a lot of people have still got with the 'management' of the project/business this could be another reason why people do not sponsor them as was expected when faced with this type of attitude that amounts to 'it is my way or no way', others can comment on anecdotes of this occurring, or not as the case may be, but don't forget you bought the this particular subject up, it was not in the 'public domain' until then.

[Gully]

Club Member threatening copyright issues? Threatening who? Can't think of an anecdotal story that way around - only as OR has posted.

Gully

[RLN]

Just an aside about C.V.s. If you have been in an industry and are applying for an influential post, then a C.V. makes sense; apprentice, years of "hands - on" experience, admin. experience etc. However, a sparkling C.V. means a lot less when applying for any job. We have engineering graduates in our Engineering Dept. that I wouldn't trust to turn a light on, but we have one lad who came from the RAF who is methodical, knows what he's talking about, and above all, safe.
What I'm trying to say is, just because a person has all the boxes ticked, it doesn't mean they are suitable for the post.

It's already been said, but quite a few people on this forum have had extensive dealings with TVOC (or VTTS - I get confused) and as far as I know they don't have any axes to grind, just frustration and disappointment.


As you were

[Sooty655]

Just an aside about C.V.s.
What I'm trying to say is, just because a person has all the boxes ticked, it doesn't mean they are suitable for the post.

On the other hand, and speaking purely generally of course, if a person has few if any of the boxes ticked, it might be expected to give the prospective employer reason to doubt.

[RLN]

Absolutely, forgot that bit.

[Ducati Boy]

It appears some "experts" have deemed it to be necessary to have a good CV and not have been an 'erk to be viewed as capable of being a manager. I feel I should set my CV out for their rather short sighted approval criteria, however, I won't!
I do not seek either to defend or indeed criticise anyones reasoned arguments for or against The Director or TVOC management performance over the years. However, I find it a bit rich that the absence of experience of management of display aircraft on the CV posted by Smiler should mean the "The Director" is not capable of being a manager. The fact that someone left the RAF as an erk with no "experience of operating a display aircraft" is hardly unique as there are only two ways to do it, either be the boss of the Red Arrows or run the BBMF. Many very successful managers have originated as an 'erk, including many a Chief of the Air Staff. During my time in the Service, I learned a few useful lessons:
1. There are always more outspoken "experts" after the job is done then when your looking for them to do it.!
2. There are always "experts" who amazingly have the solution to any problem after the event and "would never have done it that way", but then they did not have to decide!
3. There is no such thing as an aircraft Oracle, no one knows everything.
4. When we become managers we have to learn to manage.
5. You don't need to like the boss, he doesn't need to like you. It helps of course, but, the "professional" will work with the Devil to reach the common goal.
As a manager you need to see the broad picture, assess your assets and organise them to achieve the objective. You don't necessarily need to be a trade level expert to manage those who are.

"The Director" selected his team at the start in 2005 to include the management level, aircraft operating experience that he, obviously, recognised he would need when operating the Vulcan. Smiler, John Hufton and dare I say it, myself, are still here because we had that operating experience and have expanded it operating a Vulcan for two seasons. I like to think we are fairly good at our jobs and that indicates the "The Director" may be better at his than his enemies might think.

[Jigsaw]

This thread is a load of CROP






















It's going round in circles

[Mackrick]

It is so tempting to post comments in here but I believe Pat, Taff and John have said all that needs to be said.

[Ducati Boy]

Rick your right mate, some kids only hear what they want to, this is flogged to death, I'm outa here permanent!!

[Jigsaw]

Rick your right mate, some kids only hear what they want to, this is flogged to death, I'm outa here permanent!!

Precisely.
DB, as is always the case, you, Smiler and a select few have provided invaluable input and it is greatly appreciated. Time to give your fingers a rest mate.
OH, and your forehead, all that brick wall banging has to take it's toll.

I was trying to make light of it in my last post (no horns please). It has been done to death.

Many thanks to you and your pals in the know for contributing.

[Dan4th]

I don't think anybody, Pat or Taff or
anyone else, needs to be out of here
permanent.

I have my feelings, and I'm 3,200 miles
away and not in any way involved with
the day-to-day activities. This all takes
away from the weight of my "take" on
things.

I think that things from Taff on down
could not be better, and I IDOLIZE those
that keep her in flying shape.

My strongest feeling, after years of being
an onlooker, is that the very ones that I
put on a pedestal have been badly let down
by the ones above them whose responsibility
it is to GET THE WHEREWITHAL!

Dan4th

[P.eames]

Would you care to elaborate upon your comment?

Sure. I heard that somebody within the club threatened legal action against either the trust or the club regarding trademark or copywrite issues.

Whether its true or not i can't say but what it does show is that the tales of bad attitude etc can run both ways and not just from TVOC.

And it may be worth remembering that while this forum is having a go at people their colleagues quite clearly can see this and from what i see do not think the criticism is fair nor warranted, it wont be long before this forum is abandoned by the engineers.

[Dan4th]

You have it backwards, Mr. Eames......

It was all about T-Shirts and about who
owned the Vulcan Trademark and it was
Trust vs a particular club member who
intended to pass-on all profits to the
aircraft.

This was just one example of the bad
Karma that was regularly provided by
a former powerful Trust employee......

D.

[Hungry Haggis]

OHNO Rusty's not back is she ..
Yea I think most of us remember that one .

[Jigsaw]

it wont be long before this forum is abandoned by the engineers.

Forum? or Thread?

The thread I could understand. The forum...........

[P.eames]

You have it backwards, Mr. Eames......

It was all about T-Shirts and about who
owned the Vulcan Trademark and it was
Trust vs a particular club member who
intended to pass-on all profits to the
aircraft.

This was just one example of the bad
Karma that was regularly provided by
a former powerful Trust employee......

D.

No i don't.

It was'nt about Rusty or the shirts.

[Dan4th]

Well then please lay it out for us, if you will.....

D.

[P.eames]

I thought i just did.....

il try again shall i...A clubmember threatend either the club or trust with legal action for infringing on thier intelectual property. i

its a shame that the point of what i have been saying is being lost.

[Dan4th]

What club member?

What intellectual property?

Where did you hear this?

"Good Authority"....

What authority?

If that's all you've got, then I have to say
that one unnamed club member doesn't
translate to the club as a whole.

Unless you have more than that, I think
you are simply stirring the pot.

I like you, Mister Eames, but what does
this all amount to, anyway?

D.

[P.eames]

It points to a unsubstantiated, one sided version of a incident that may or maynot have happend, alot like most of what is posted on fora regarding the operation of the Vulcan. the point i have been trying to make is.........you know what? i've forgotton. so instead of trying to make it i shall get the person involved to come on here and fill you all in with the juicy details.

[Dan4th]

[Mayfly]

This thread was quarantined for a period of 12 hours to give the mods the opportunity to discuss it and make changes if required. Although not all have been on line to give their opinions, the majority have agreed that there is nothing wrong with any of the individual posts.....

Therefore I have reinstated it unchanged in keeping with IA's policy.

As mods we are duty bound to take on board everyones point of view and act accordingly.

I do ask you all to bear in mind that whatever the thread/topic is, there may well be some who may feel offended or alienated whether you agree with their veiw point or not. I, as a mod, would not like any member to walk away because we as mods have not considered their point of view on a particular topic.

I have dealt with the problem as quickly as possible and hope the out come is acceptable to all.

Mayfly

[Xplumberlives]

Thank you for returning it M.F.